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Created 4 months ago, edited 4 months ago.
Status changed by McLovin 4 months ago
Hope, Wish Pleading
Status changed by McLovin 4 months ago
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| Comments: |
| 1 month ago |
 Noturnus |
The distribution that delivers a gnome2 experience will be my distribution. | |
| 1 month ago |
 RayWoods |
@Biren Hopefully Cinnamon or MATE will be up to a reasonable standard by the time Mint 13 comes out. Failing that there will still be Mint 9 LTS which is supported through to 2013. (I'm personally hanging around with Mint 10 and LMDE for the time being and running Mint 12 in VirtualBox; to keep an eye on it.) | |
| 1 month ago |
 arsenal |
I agree; i like kde but honestly thats only when im in the mood! | |
| 1 month ago |
 Biren |
What I can say is that GNOME3 or Unity are really disturbing. Although I installed Lisa and used it for 2 full days, I couldn't get it properly and had to come back to Katya. May be GNOME3 is fit for our next generation but not me.Problem is what to do after October 12 when Katya is no longer supported. | |
| 1 month ago |
mintystark |
I too am not a fan of Gnome 3. I have been a Mint fan as I used 8 and 9. Then suddenly realized that 12 was out. Hurray! Then after I installed it I went WTF! I did try Gnome classic and Mate. Both were better, but still had problems. So I installed KDE, LXDE, and XFCE on LM 12. I have used Gnome3, Gnome Classic, True Gnome2, Mate, KDE, Unity, Lxde, Xfce and Xfce is by far my favorite. If Mate is the focus, then I recommend looking at xfce as the foundation. Light, Fast, Flexable, No-Need with Compiz when using xfcwm. |
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| 1 month ago |
 infedel |
I to would have to agree Gnome3 is not for me. I have been using Gnome2 for the last 3 years and have grown to like it a lot. Before that I was a die hard KDE user and was quit disappointed with KDE4 when it came along. As a result migrated over to Gome2. For me it's all about work flow. I like having icons and shortcuts that I can manipulate on my desktop. Mess with this and my work flow is disrupted, and I feel compelled to look for an alternative. The funny thing is I don't think that I am alone with this feeling either. look at the 2 most dominate OS's Windows and Mac OSX. Even though both platforms have matured over that last decade. They both still allow their respective user bases to add icons and create shortcuts on the desktop. I believe there is a good reason for this as well, One could speculate that huge amounts of time and capital have been spent by both companies to study how users interact with their computers and the result show that icons and shortcuts are a feature that users expect when interacting with their computers. Linux is about choice, however I think it would be wise for both Gnome and KDE developers to consider this when designing a new Desktop. As of now I would consider both KDE4 and GNome3 both dead ends in the evolution of the desktop. as for now there are alternatives perhaps I should try XFCE or LXDE. Cheers |
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| 2 months ago |
sajukktheeternal |
one more thing: If I'm not mistaken, I guess the idea of this post means "give more resources to mate". This is the gnome2 fork... So it's definitely a YES |
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| 2 months ago |
sajukktheeternal |
I'm a big hater of gnome 3. Yes I gave it a try. I gave it more than a try. I just can't make it work for me. It's not a matter of some trivial things mentioned by many. I don't mind the "upper panel". And no, I'm not "afraid of change", I switched from windows to linux ffs and loved that change. What I hate about gnome 3 is it's entire philosophy. I can't get used to not having shortcuts on my desktop. Right-clicking doesn't seem to do anything interesting. The very meaning of desktop itself is cancelled, there is no desktop. I can't accept the window-based orientation, instead of task-based orientation. There is no actual multitasking, Gnome 3 sets a new way of computing, true. But why can't I have shortcuts? Why did they have to remove possibillities? Ok, they could have created a new way of using the interface, but why did they have to remove the old way? Linux is about choice. Gnome 3 removed choices and possibilities, when it was absolutely unneccesary. (Remember the hidden shutdown option?) It's good for tablets, really. But some of us have computers. I will never adopt gnome 3. I think I'll wait until gnome 4 |
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| 2 months ago |
RayWoods |
A good Engineer looks at their creation, take out the bits that don't work well, improve them/change them and put it back. This is the way a good product improves and evolves. The Gnome Developers have just thrown out everything then rebuilt it. This resulted in Gnome 3, which isn't a successor to Gnome 2 (as would be the normal engineering good practice) but a mess. Sadly, in my opinion, it has been down hill since Linux Mint 10, as this was for me the last edition which, after updating, it just works. Everything else since needs additional (basic) packages installed and work arounds applied. I think Microsoft must have got an infiltrator into Gnome and is doing a very good job! |
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| 2 months ago |
jk121960 |
Hi, I would like to append my original message up top, I downloaded LisaRC and loaded it, played with it a bit. Said OK, waited for the release downloaded that and I have been circling back to it every couple of days, I appreciate that the Mint guys did a hell of a job with very little time to do it in. But alas I feel unhappy, I will hold onto 11 as long as possible with the hope that 13 will triumph like I know Mint can. One comment though.. what happened to the Mint Menu? I liked that so much I swiped it and put it on my Debian installs. The one on Lisa, No favorites list and now that the panel is so functionless I have no place to put my constantly used launchers. We have to fix that, that much the Mint devs do have control of, restore it's functional beauty. I realize they had no control of the Gnome fiasco, and will do what they can to mitigate the horror that is G3, so as in my first post I hope and I pray for salvation. Further we wouldn't want to scare away the Ubuntu converts that have jumped ship on Conanical? I was shocked and proud when the downloads for Mint toppled the Ubuntu empire on distrowatch.com (that's got to be giving them pause). But I have faith that are good friends at Mint will come up with something that will solidify there place as the distro of choice for the desktop. Once again thanks for listening to me rant. --jerry |
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| 2 months ago |
 Simeon |
I tried the latest Mint 12 and after trying out one day I got back to Katja. Maybe I'm old-fashioned PC user but simply impossible to work relaxed on it, i feel closed and unfree around the desk top. Mint Team has certainly done everything in their power but from bicycle you just can not make the plane. GUI Gnome 3 is primarily for tablets and smartphones, MATE is a little bit bugy and i feel less happy with DuckDuckGo for search engine. That is my opinion for now.Be blessed. |
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| 3 months ago |
 jnsatterfield |
c_malc: You certainly aren't. I've used Ubuntu ever since Feisty (~2007). I've loved it up until the release of Oneiric. It took me every bit of 3 hours before I was trying to revert back to Natty. But when it came down to having to complete re-install, I just decided to go with Mint. I'm quite happy with Mint as my primary distro. I would hate to see it go the way of gnome 3. |
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| 3 months ago |
Snookybear |
If something works (Gnome) why modify the public release to look and work like other OS releases? Why not just be unique? I have always known of Linux being able to be customised by the end user, but why release updates and distros that are what other mainstream Operating Systems like MS and Apple release? Why not keep it classic and simple yet keep a GUI interface? | |
| 3 months ago |
Snookybear |
I like that idea Jerry; it makes sense. If it aint broke don't fix it. | |
| 3 months ago |
c_malc |
Been using Ubuntu for quite a while. Can't stand their new desktop so just dumped it in favour of Mint because of this very issue. (and I know I'm not the only one to have done this) | |
| 3 months ago |
 kazztan0325 |
@LexMK: I also hope this would come true. |
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| 3 months ago |
 LexMK |
@kazztan0325 I SO hope this (I found there is a package called 'mint-meta-mate' here: http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Lisa So I guess maybe we would be able to choose between MATE and Gnome3 when we would log-in 'Mint 12 Lisa'..., MAYBE.) will be true |
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| 3 months ago |
kazztan0325 |
@sunewbie: I think Mint Team is too small to develop own DE. |
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| 3 months ago |
 sunewbie |
changed my thinking. Now I think Mint should have their own DE. Here is the reason. Linux developers are not synchronized I would further like to add: If you look at Micro$oft and Apple, they have a complete control on all parts of an OS. e.g. Microsoft has it's own kernel, own GUI and some own apps. Same with apple. Infact apple has gone one step ahead. It has even produced processors A4 and A5 for iphone. They have a dedicated staff, which works in a definite direction (in all departments). Remember that Linux is having just 1% market share in case of Desktop PC. In server, it has 70% share. So nothing there to prove. The future of Linux based desktop looks 'Uncertain', specially after Gnome3 and KDE 4.x. They are moving in altogether different direction. Some have even said that, at present, there are not any mature DE, who will go in concrete direction. In this case, Ubuntu is a hope as it has financial backup, now it has developed own DE (Unity). I think this is also the reason for not getting popular. You never know what will happen in near future, say after one year. For end user, such news of Gnome3, Unity and the criticism that it has faced on net, makes us uncomfortable. If I read 3 negative reviews, I will not try that distro. I think having an independent DE should be beneficial in future. Anther problem with distro is that, it has to pass the likes of geeks to be successful. Geeks nad end users have altogether different needs, perspective and way of working. As and End user, if I will read 3 negative reviews, I will never try that distro. |
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| 3 months ago |
kazztan0325 |
Hi all, Be relieved, please! I found there is a package called 'mint-meta-mate' here: http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Lisa So I guess maybe we would be able to choose between MATE and Gnome3 when we would log-in 'Mint 12 Lisa'..., MAYBE. |
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| 3 months ago |
izzyu |
I am just looking around for a alternative for Ubuntu. While I do not have a problem with the Gnome Shell on my Notebook, it is not very useful on my PC at work. The screen to change windows are irritating when you are coding and just wanted to view the change in firefox... So I promote the idea of developing Gnome 2 further as a fork. |
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| 4 months ago |
LexMK |
My vote goes for MATE Desktop Environment (https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment) Gnome Shell is bad, Unity too. They took away the total freedom of customization I had in Gnome Panel, the exact reason why I choose Linux over Winows or OS X. I just can't stand it! |
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| 4 months ago |
mstombs |
"I need the same functional categorized menu's that I don't have to figure out or drill down through or use a search engine to locate the command." Have just abandoned Ubuntu for this very reason - I thought the install just fubared my config and if that means a clean install is needed time to move on! |
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| 4 months ago |
Runes |
One more addition to the comment I placed below: M*crosoft from it's early UI in Win95 all the way to Win7 placed the start menu where it was with applications so that people would adopt their OS more quickly...the fact that users do not have to completely relearn their OS just to get working in their regular applications helped them obtain and maintain their client base. If Linux wants to grow and have new adopters the UI must be consistent from one version to another be it Gnome or KDE. While the submenus may change (like WinXP to WinVista) users should be able to find their apps quickly or they will leave. I haven't given up hope--yet ;-) | |
| 4 months ago |
Runes |
Agreed on this one....I cannot stand the new UI in Gnome 3..sticking with Mint as well...hopefully the new releases won't cave to the new and pretty much useless UI. | |
| 4 months ago |
 sgbeal |
AMEN, Brother! Just today i switched from Ubuntu to Mint for that very reason: http://blog.s11n.net/?p=101 | |
| 4 months ago |
RayWoods |
Unity and the like may be okay for Tablet computers but for the majority with a normal desktop/laptop and keyboard, it is useless. Tablets are okay for playing things on but, for real work you need a keyboard/pointing device, not a toy. |
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| 4 months ago |
 psyckers |
Liking the idea of two releases one with Gnome 2.32 and the other with Gnome 3.2. Getting the two to talk to each other is going to be a challenge, but I have faith in the Mint developers to not only get it done but also doing it with 'elegance'. I think if there is any Linux distro that can make the new GUI developments work for the users, it will be the Linux Mint crew and their awesome ingenuity. |
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| 4 months ago |
 AlexVSharp |
I was just about to make the same suggestion about cooperating with MATE. Seems I was beaten to the punch by a whole month. ;) Gnome2 is the main reason I came to Mint anyway, thus I want to support its further development in any way possible. In my opinion: Gnome3 is, like Unity, more of a notebook interface and, while not all that bad, it extremely lacks in both the customization department and desktop functionality. I really do hope this fork project takes off and we see it as Mint's future default... |
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| 4 months ago |
sunewbie |
I found the info at Linux mint blog http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1845 Scroll down to 'News and summary' This is what Clem said Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” will be released in November this year with continued support for Gnome 2 but also with the introduction of Gnome 3. The radical changes introduced by the Gnome project split the community. At the time of releasing Linux Mint 11 we decided it was too early to adopt Gnome 3. This time around, the decision isn’t as simple. Gnome 3.2 is more mature and we can see the potential of this new desktop and use it to implement something that can look and behave better than anything based on Gnome 2. Of course, we’re starting from scratch and this process will take time and span across multiple releases. Until then, it’s important we continue to support the traditional Gnome 2 desktop. We’re likely to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2. We’re also working in cooperation with the MATE project (which is a fork of Gnome 2) at the moment to see if we can make both desktops compatible in an effort to let you run both Gnome 2 (or MATE) and Gnome 3 on the same system, either in Linux Mint 12, or for the future. |
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| 4 months ago |
 McLovin |
We have been trying to figure out a way to keep the traditional Gnome 2.32 that we all know and love, though it is getting harder and harder to get that done, as everything is making the switch to Gnome3, I have used it, and cannot stand it. LMDE is going to be Gnome 2.32 for the foreseeable future, so that is always an option, while not quite as new user friendly, it is still very easy to use, if have ANY kind of experience with Linux at all. | |
| 4 months ago |
sunewbie |
agree with @trollboy . X F C E is less bloated than Gnome adn light on resources, except some short commings like dropbox integration. Even Linus Torvalds is using XFCE after what he calls Gnome 3 as 'unholy mess' in Google+ discussion. He has even asked Fedora team to fork Gnome 2. here is the link https://plus.google.com/106327083461132854143/posts/SbnL3KaVRtM This is what he says: Linus Torvalds: While you are at it, could you also fork gnome, and support a gnome-2 environment? I want my sane interfaces back. I have yet to meet anybody who likes the unholy mess that is gnome-3. Linus Torvalds - +Cyrill Gorcunov: it's not that I have rendering problems with gnome3 (although I do have those too), it's that the user experience of Gnome3 even without rendering problems is unacceptable. Why can't I have shortcuts on my desktop? Why can't I have the expose functionality? Wobbly windows? Why does anybody sane think that it's a good idea to have that "go to the crazy 'activities'" menu mode? I used to be upset when gnome developers decided it was "too complicated" for the user to remap some mouse buttons. In gnome3, the developers have apparently decided that it's "too complicated" to actually do real work on your desktop, and have decided to make it really annoying to do. Here's an example of "the crazy": you want a new terminal window. So you go to "activities" and press the "terminal" thing that you've made part of your normal desktop thing (but why can't I just have it on the desktop, instead of in that insane "activities" mode?). What happens? Nothing. It brings your existing terminal to the forefront. That's just crazy crap. Now I need to use Shift-Control-N in an old terminal to bring up a new one. Yeah, that's a real user experience improvement. Sure. I'm sure there are other ways, but that's just an example of the kind of "head up the arse" behavior of gnome3. Seriously. I have been asking other developers about gnome3, they all think it's crazy. I'm using Xfce. I think it's a step down from gnome2, but it's a huge step up from gnome3. Really. As per the entire thread, which consisted of advanced programmers, no body was happy and using gnome 3 as default desktop. So no need for Mint team to speand time to fork gnome 3. I think sooner or later sombody will fork it :) :D @islandmonkey: MATE DE, as on Today, I believe is only available for ARCH LINUX |
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| 4 months ago |
 compuman2004 |
I think @trollboy said it all. | |
| 4 months ago |
 trollboy |
Four simple letters. X F C E |
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| 4 months ago |
islandmonkey |
For Mint 12 unfortunately, Gnome 3 for the desktop environment is defo. However, the panel will stay and Mint will stay in the shape it is in 11. For 13, however, I believe we will probably: 1) Make our own DE, just keeping the GTK+ engine. 2) Use a Gnome 2 fork, known as the MATE desktop environment. |
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| 4 months ago |
jk121960 |
In response to blueXrider no insult taken, but the more individuals speak out or up, the better chance change will be made. --jerry |
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| 4 months ago |
RayWoods |
Don't worry Jerry, so many people in the Mint Community (and those who are yet to find us) concur with your thoughts, I'm sure, if it is technically possible, your wishes will come true. Ray | |
| 4 months ago |
 blueXrider |
Jerry. Please research before posting. This issue has been discussed about a million times. Not to piss you off or anything..... but please look before you leap. Thanks |
Other ideas from jk121960
No other ideas.