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 Multilingual Community Website

Created 7 years ago, edited 7 years ago.
Status changed 6 years ago
Author:

kazztan0325
Status:
Considered
  Score:
 20
32 votes
Idea:

It would be nice if our community website could be shown by more than one language.

Select_Community-Lang_001.jpg


It seems not so hard if use Google Translate's Tools and Resources.

Please refer Add Translate to your website.

And...,
If 'Google translate tool' would be implemented, it would work like below:

Google-Translate_001.jpg


------------------------------------------------------------
Editing History:

On 17 Sep 2011 09:00 AM UTC
- added one more screen-shot

Comments:

5 years ago

jahid_0903014
agree with 'Qruqs'  
5 years ago

Qruqs
I don't think on-line translation services aren't mature enough to use. They're a help, but no replacement for a real translation.

Each to his or her own, I guess, as long as the site maintainers never will fall for the hideous mistake many do: set the language on the pages based on your IP location! That must be one of the worst ideas ever to have come out of somebody's brain.

If you're not interested, you can stop reading now, but here's why serving a language based on IP number is a really, really bad idea:

There is NOTHING AT ALL that says a person can even understand one word of the language being served! We have people who live and work in Sweden and who can't understand a word of Swedish, yet they are by default served Swedish when they use "services" like google, IMDb (film names) or others like them, no matter what their browser setting is. Why?

For the same reason one should not use a country's flag to stand for a language. Why should a person who lives in Canada, and who only speaks French, have to click on a French flag to read his or her Canadian mother's tongue?

There is nothing wrong with having translated sites, if they're well put together (IMO, most aren't). But let it be a choice you can make! The world has had enough dictators!
 
6 years ago

kazztan0325
@quake0:
Thank you for your support!
 
6 years ago

quake0
good idea!  
6 years ago

Tonya
@vincentv:
Thank you very much!
Mutual understanding is a great thing!
 
6 years ago

kazztan0325
@sunewbie:
Thank you for your support!
 
6 years ago

sunewbie
good idea, thought Google translate, does not translate well, but it can convey the message

promoting.
 
6 years ago

kazztan0325
Thank you @vincentv for your understanding and putting this forward.

I understand your situation, and accept your apologies.
Nobody is skillful at the start.

I guess you are a good moderator in Mint Forums, but I think you should heed the circumstances that the moderating job in Mint Community website is a bit different from the job in forums.
I hope, you would learn the ropes as soon as possible and would become a good moderator in this community also.

 
6 years ago

kazztan0325
@Tonya:
Thank you for your comments and support.


@vincentv:
Did you understand the contention which I wrote on my previous comments?
I would like to ask you to undo your decision.

If you could not understand the point, then I (and maybe other members also) would not be able to get away from the fact that you do not have a vocation for moderating in this community.

 
6 years ago

Tonya
These two ideas goal is similar, but the way and means are different.
I agree with @kazztan0325 that it will be good if Mint Team would make final decision.
 
6 years ago

kazztan0325
@vincentv:

Please read @efthialex 's "Translating community.linuxmint.com" and mine closely and compare these two ideas.

@efthialex wrote:
> I can translate it in Greek.
That is to say, @efthialex suggests translation with members hands.

On the other hand, I suggests machine translation, though it has not matured yet.

So two ideas are similar, but its way and means are different each other.

Anyway I cannot accept your decision, but I don't allow you would reject @efthialex 's idea.
I think both of two are worthy to consider.
I hope Mint Team would make last decision (Approved or Rejected).

 
6 years ago

kazztan0325
@vincentv and other moderators:

I don't intend to stick to Google's Script/API, it's just a sample.
I don't mind what way and means would be used to realize this idea.

Please consider the intention itself of this idea and decide it should be put forward or not.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@jose_manuel:
I'm sorry I replied to you too late.
Thank you for your support!

 
7 years ago

jose_manuel
Very Good Idea !!!! I Promote this !!!!  
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@kip-:
Yes, I agree with you.
"it should be done already!"
But this idea's Status is still 'New'.
Maybe it would be changed to 'Considered' 1 wear later...?

 
7 years ago

kip-
Its only small piece of code from google pasted in to header of website and job done.. it should be done already!  
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@mitcoes:

You need not remove your idea.

The last decision "to be considered or to be rejected" would be passed by Moderators, not by us.

 
7 years ago

mitcoes
Of course I promote your idea, sorry for not finding this before my own.
If you consider that is better to retire "Multilingual forum" I will do it - if it is possible -, and if you consider that it would be better to have 2 similar ideas ruling, I will keep it
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Anleoje:

Gracias por tu apoyo!
( Thank you for your support! )

 
7 years ago

Anleoje
Great idea! I promote it! :)  
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Gurman:

Thank you for your support and cooperation.

I am interested in the accuracy of translation by comparison Ukrainian and Japanese.
It seems they have many difference of the results.
It would come from the difference of 'language family'.
Maybe Italian would have many difference of the results between Ukrainian, Italian, and Japanese.

Anyway the accuracy of machine translation is still low at present.
We should not depend on machine translation thoughtlessly.

I understand your worry.
And I agree with your suggestion.

I think, we should mainly use English for both reading and writing, we may refer machine translation but it is only when we are under the necessity of using it.

 
7 years ago

Gurman
@kazztan0325
I have tried to assess the results of the Ukrainian translation of your
homework.
1,2,6,9 - translated well
3.4 - translation the strange and nonsensical, but logic and my weak knowledge of English was enough to find the meaning of written (in this case was considered only the original English version)
5,6,7 - translation of the strange and senseless. Original did not help - I could not understand this game of words.
Of course I can spend much more time and decipher the message.

These were cases when I knew about the complexity of sentences and the probable error of an interpreter. However when I do not know about a possible bug I have more confidence in the translation.

Probability of error is high.
It's one thing when these errors appear when translating the private blog. Most likely it will cause some jokes and no more.
But when these errors will show up in the discussion complex technical issues it will cause serious errors, mutual accusations of incompetence, taking wrong decisions.

In my opinion the presence of full-page automatic translation, many members will be less careful approach to translation, is less to analyze the original text, more rely on low-quality translation.
This will increase the error rate. Also, as a consequence - increase in irrelevant messages, and false interpretations.

On the other hand judging from the reviews here many community members consider this feature useful.
In this case, I would agree that it is worth trying to add the option for automatic translation. But with the additional conditions of persistent requirements :
- For the reader: that translation is very rough,
- For writing: that is necessary to express himself simply and clearly, without excessive linguistic acrobatics.

I am confident that the ideas of the author agrees to these terms,
And so I changing the rejection of this idea to support it.
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
Thanks again, @compuman2004 !
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Alexio:

Thank you for your support and information!

We can see the Language Selector of Google translate at the bottom-center on your site as below:

Google-Translate-on-LMCV_001.jpg

We select Language, then Google translate bar will appear as we can see in the second screen-shot.

By the way, @Alexio, can we put the Language Selector of Google translate at the top-right on our site?

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Tonya:

You are welcome!
I'm interested in Ukrainian alphabet too.

 
7 years ago

Alexio
I am also supporting this idea as I already implemented the Google Translate functionality for the Linux Mint Community Videos website.  
7 years ago

Tonya
@kazztan0325:

Many thanks for using Ukrainian in your assignment (homework) and in screen-shot.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@compuman2004:

Thank you for your continuous support.

I believe machine translation would become a little help for our community, though we should use it carefully.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@blueXrider:

I guess almost all of languages in the world have 'homonym'.
For machine translation, it would be one of issues which should be managed well.

And we can see machine translation is under developing at present while we are looking at the results of the assignment (homework) which you gave me.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@mikefreeman:

Thank you for your comments.

I agree with your suggestion:
"... with the disclaimer printed in BOLD at the top of the translated page that any machine translation can be incorrect, and not to use it with instructions that could damage your machine if translated incorrectly"

 
7 years ago

blueXrider
Yes, it is a difficult task to undertake. It would mean a lot more support from the community or at least more moderators. Good job @kazztran0325 on your "assignment" however it wasn't ment for you to post the results.

Very interesting though. Our English is made of fragments. Same spelling=different meanings, words sound the same=different meanings.

Its crazy.

I beleive in a intro page then move to a select language. Good idea Kazz
 
7 years ago

mikefreeman
I've always thought that the main site (www.linuxmint.com) should be a more static, general information and promotional site, and the blog listings should remain on the blog. That would make the main page translation into other languages significantly easier.

Also, with our ideals of open source community involvement, maybe we can offer our services to the Mint team in that same spirit. Basically, if you are fluent in English and your non-English native language that you'd like to see the Mint website in, perhaps you could copy the html from the main page, translate the text into your native language, perhaps let someone else peruse and edit any mistakes, and send those files to the Mint team for review and possible addition to the site.

From there, the more fluid parts of the site (like the blog, forums, community site, etc.) can have your translation button on them with the disclaimer printed in BOLD at the top of the translated page that any machine translation can be incorrect, and not to use it with instructions that could damage your machine if translated incorrectly. Or something like that.
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Can0dope:
Thank you for your comments.

Actually I did't understand the word 'rotflmao', so I referred http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ROTFLMAO, then I understood.

I'm glad to make you "roll on the floor laughing my a** off".

 
7 years ago

Can0dope
rotflmao! "You said Nantes"  
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@L0r3nz0:
Thank you for your comments.

I think your idea "The best thing one could do for tutorials would be have a sort of wiki and let users tranlate the articles" is very good.

What about posting it as your idea?

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@trollboy:

Thank you for your comments.
You said right.
We should not thoughtlessly use machine translation for tutorials.

By the way, I'm interested in the game which you introduced us.
I tried it too.

"What are you talking about?"

English -> Chinese -> Korean -> Japanese -> English

"You said Nantes?"


Where did 'Nantes' come from??

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@orionthehunter:
Thank you for your support.
I hope you would continuously come to community if possible, because you are a senior member in our Japanese members.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@RayWoods:
Thank you for your support.
I also think Mint Main site should be translated by human's brains and hands.

In Community site, if machine translation would be implemented, it would give us a little help when some members posted ideas or tutorials in their mother tongue.

By the way, I have heard the name 'Doctor Who', but sadly I have not watched the SF TV programme.
I used to watch 'Thunderbirds' of my childhood.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Tonya:
Thank you for your support.
Built-in Google Translation would become a little help for our life in this community.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
Mr.blueXrider:

This assignment (homework) was very interesting to do.
However I was tired, because I did coming and going over and over again between this page and Google Translate site, and repeated Drag&Copy;, Drag&Paste;, Click, Drag&Copy;, Paste...

I translated example sentences to Ukrainian (the 2nd line), Japanese (the 3rd line) and Italian (the 4th line).
May I ask @Gurman to rate the accuracy of translation about Ukrainian?
May I ask @L0r3nz0 to rate the accuracy of translation about Italian?
Needless to say, I rated the accuracy of translation about Japanese, and wrote it at below this report.

The criterion of rating is as below.

A = No problem.
B = Translation of words and phrases are OK. Grammatically unnatural or strange, but I understand what does it mean.
C = It has mistranslation of word(s) or phrase(s). Grammatically unnatural or strange. But I guess vaguely what does it mean.
D = It has mistranslation of word(s) or phrase(s). Grammatically no problem, but it is useless.
E = It has mistranslation of word(s) or phrase(s). Grammatical mistranslation. It is useless.


1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
1) Пов'язка була намотана навколо рани.
1) 包帯は、傷に巻かれました。
1) Il bendaggio è stato avvolto intorno alla ferita.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.
2) Ферма використовується для виробництва продукції.
2) ファームは、農産物を生産するために使用されました。
2) L'azienda è stata utilizzata per la produzione di produrre.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
3) Звалище була настільки повною, що їй довелося відмовитися ще відмовитися.
3) ダンプは、より多くのゴミを拒否しなければならなかったのでいっぱいだった。
3) La discarica era così piena che ha dovuto rifiutare più rifiutare.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
4) Ми повинні польський польська меблі.
4) 我々は、ポーランドの家具を磨く必要があります。
4) Dobbiamo lucidare i mobili polacco.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
5) Він може призвести, якщо він отримав би вивести.
5) 彼がリードを得るならば、彼は可能性があります。
5) Si potrebbe portare, se avrebbe ottenuto la conducono fuori.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
6) Солдат вирішив покинути його десерт в пустелі.
6) 兵士は砂漠で彼のデザートを捨てることにしました。
6) Il soldato ha deciso di abbandonare la sua dolce nel deserto.

7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
7) Так що немає часу, як сьогодення, він подумав, що настав час представити даний час.
7) 現在のような時間がないので、彼はそれが存在を提示する時間だと思った。
7) Dal momento che non c'è tempo come l'attuale, ha pensato che era giunto il momento di presentare il presente.

8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
8) Бас був написаний на голові бас-барабана.
8) 低音は、バスドラムのヘッドに描かれた。
8) Un basso è stata dipinta sul capo della grancassa.

9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
9) Коли стріляють, голуб пірнув у кущі.
9) で撮影するときに、鳩は茂みに鳩。
9) Quando sparato, la colomba colomba in mezzo ai cespugli.

10) I did not object to the object.
10) Я не заперечував, щоб об'єкт.
10) 私は、オブジェクトにオブジェクトいなかった。
10) Non mi ha contestato l'oggetto.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
11) Страхування є недійсним за недійсними.
11) 保険は無効なため無効です。
11) L'assicurazione è valida per il valido.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
12) Існував ряд серед веслярів про те, як рядок.
12) 漕ぎする方法については漕ぎ手の間で行があった。
12) C'era una fila tra i rematori sulle modalità di fila.

13) They were too close to the door to close it.
13) Вони були дуже близько до дверей, щоб закрити його.
13) 彼らはあまりにもそれを閉じるためにドアに接近していた。
13) Erano troppo vicino alla porta per chiuderla.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
14) Долар робить смішні речі, коли дійсно присутні.
14) 存在しない場合に降圧が面白いことを行います。
14) Il dollaro fa cose strane quando le fa sono presenti.

15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
15) Швачка та каналізаційних впав у каналізаційну лінію.
15) 女性の裁縫師と下水道は、下水管路に落ちた。
15) Una sarta e una fogna cadde in una rete fognaria.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
16) Щоб допомогти з посадкою, фермер навчив своїх сіяти сіяти.
16) 植樹を支援するために、農夫が種をまくために彼の雌豚を教えた。
16) Per aiutare con la semina, l'agricoltore ha insegnato ai suoi seminare a seminare.

17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
17) Вітер був дуже сильний, щоб вітром вітрила.
17) 風が帆を巻くには余りにも強かった。
17) Il vento era troppo forte per il vento la vela.

18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
18) Після декількох ін'єкцій моя щелепа отримав номер.
18) 注射の数の後に私の顎は、数値を得た。
18) Dopo una serie di iniezioni mia mascella ha numero.

19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
19) Побачивши сльози на картині я розплакався.
19) 絵に涙を確認した時点で、私は涙を流した。
19) Dopo aver visto lo strappo nel dipinto ho versato una lacrima.

20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
20) Я повинен був предметом підлягають ряд випробувань.
20) 私は一連のテストの対象を施すことがありました。
20) Ho dovuto sottoporre il soggetto ad una serie di test.

21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend.
21) Як я можу інтимної це мій найближчий друг.
21) どのように私は私の最も親密な友人にこれを親密なことができる。
21) Come posso intima al mio amico più intimo.


My rating about Japanese sentences:
1)=B, 2)=B, 3)=E, 4)=A, 5)=D,
6)=A, 7)=E, 8)=D, 9)=E, 10)=E,
11)=E, 12)=D, 13)=E, 14)=E, 15)=D,
16)=E, 17)=A, 18)=E, 19)=D, 20)=E,
21)=E

PS
I think we need to consider the words and phrases which are used in our community are restrictive.
i.e. Probably it is impossible the sentences like these would appear in our community site.

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
I am now doing the homework which @blueXrider gave me, but it is time I have to go to bed...
Good Night, all.
zzzzz.....

 
7 years ago

trollboy
Anyway, now I'm home

In principle, this is a good idea. In practice I wonder if machine translation is good enough for tutorials where you need to know what you are doing.

English to French to German to French to English becomes

In theory c' ; an good idea is. I wonder in practice if the automatic translation for d' ; course it is rather good; Instruction, where you must know what you made.

and

I am trollboy bow down before me

English -> French -> Dutch -> French -> English

I am trollboy clotheshanger downwards for me

See hours of fun
 
7 years ago

L0r3nz0
I agree with @RayWoods and @trollboy, both the main mage and the tutorial section shouldn't be automatically translated.

The best thing one could do for tutorials would be have a sort of wiki and let users tranlate the articles.
na example could be archWiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page
 
7 years ago

trollboy
There was a game that could be played with Alta Vista Babrlfish where you would translate a simple sentence through a few languages and back for example English -> French -> german -> Dutch -> German -> French -> English to see what gibberish you would get back.

Awesome game and with machine translation it is still just as playable today.

In principle, this is a good idea. In practice I wonder if machine translation is good enough for tutorials where you need to know what you are doing.

@raywoods the Tardis doesn't change lip sync, it just makes you think it changes the lip sync ;)
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Gurman:

Yes, you are right.
I also know machine translation is under developing, its accuracy is not so high, but it is possible to be a little help.

There are some members who post ideas (or tutorials) which are written by their mother tongue.
In these case, what do you do?
Do you ignore them because you don't understand their language?
The answer is..., "NO!", right?
I guess you would translate them to your mother tongue (or English) with machine translation, and you would almost understand what would they like to say, and then you would vote or would add comments, right?

If the function of translating engine would be incorporated into this site, you would need not coming and going between this site and translation site.

And the members who are not good at writing English would feel free to post their ideas (or tutorials) which are written by their mother tongue.

 
7 years ago

orionthehunter
Google Translate is improving to the point where I think I might actually support this.  
7 years ago

RayWoods
A few years ago, on finding a foreign language, you just clicked onto another page. Now we can translate it and normally gather the gist of what is being said. What is it going to be like in the future? May be not like in the BBC's Doctor Who, where the TARDIS translates everything, (including lip sync), but it should improve.

Linux Mint is not just an Anglo Saxon phenomena (in English) but is truly international. Because of this, I think, at least the main pages should have specific translations done, leaving the rest to automated translating machines.

You have my support @kazztan0325.
 
7 years ago

Tonya
I support this idea.
Do you like machine translation or not, are you satisfied with machine translation quality or not... built-in Google Translation should ease our life anyway.
 
7 years ago

blueXrider
Might keep you busy for a minute  
7 years ago

blueXrider
Nice idea however difficult. Translate this:

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend.
 
7 years ago

Gurman
@kazztan0325
The idea is good. But practically unrealizable.

As I said before, do it by hand is unrealistic.
A machine translation is so bad, that will give more confusion than good.

I know whereof I speak. I use Google Translate to write this comment. I use it daily for other tasks. Because I speak English too bad.
Each time I have to recheck everything carefully.

Translation engine - only help in the translation. Neither engine is not able to fully translate.
Very often the translation is so weird that you can not make out what they mean.
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
(Sorry, this is off-topic, I am talking to myself.)

I took for a long time to make the imaginary screen-shot...
 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@compuman2004:

Thank you for your support and sample.

The comments in Japanese which you translated by translating engine is not 100% complete and is a little strange, but we Japanese understand what you would like to say.

If we have to start to translate entire website by our brains and hands, I would not post this idea.

Only use of the function of Google Translate, our community site would become one which is easier for users who are not good at English to browse.

By way of parenthesis, I am NOT a participant of ©Google (smile).

 
7 years ago

kazztan0325
@Gurman:

Did you see Add Translate to your website ?

Just copy and paste their snippet of code (it has only 7 lines) into webpage, it could translate the entire webpage.
However it use the function of Google Translate, so it would be impossible the translation would be 100% complete.

But it need not translate entire webpage by hand.

 
7 years ago

Gurman
Okay, but then must translated into all languages all ideas, tutorials, commentaries ...
It's unreal the amount of work.

It is better to direct these efforts to create and maintain individual websites of local communities.

For me difficult to articulate their thoughts in English,
but I try - this is a tribute to the overall efficiency.
 

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