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 Base future Mints on Debian not Ubuntu

Created 7 years ago, edited 7 years ago.
Status changed 6 years ago
Author:

Pariah
Status:
Selected
  Score:
 264
477 votes
Idea:

I think Ubuntu is headed in a direction that takes it away from the community of users who have worked so hard to make it good. Here lately the known bugs in releases have escalated and gotten more serious and from a bug tester I talked to, it's getting worse. I've long said that a 6 month release cycle isn't long enough and I think Karmic Koala is absolutely a reflection of that. Quality seems to be less and less of a priority than it used to be and user input of far less importance. So, my idea is to do what Crunch Bang Linux is doing and base Mint on Debian rather than Ubuntu. I'm sure this will not go over well at all with a lot of people lol.

Comments:

1 month ago

sercamiz
Provided that no drawback occurs in the current use: programs availability, updating, etc.  
2 years ago

siafulinux
Agree with this entirely.
 
2 years ago

yodamin
I cut my "Linux Teeth" on Red hat 2. I refined what little Linux knowledge I have acquired on Debian. I love Debian but prefer the ease of use of Ubuntu due to lack of knowledge and minimal time to gain said knowledge.

That being said I would love to see Linux Mint become Debian based simply becasue there is someone now able to do all the hard work for me. Debian is/was my first Linux love. Red Hat 2 taught me tons and for that I am grateful, but it was a hard learning experience. One I do not wish to repeat in my old age.

When Ubuntu switch to that horrible interface they call "Unity" I asked my son immediately, " What distro can I install that has multiple choices for interface, is steady as a rock and just works immediately after install with no or at least minimal fuss." He responded "Linux Mint" immediately with no hesitation at all. So I tried LM. I still have it running on my laptop which is WAY over powered for it--MSI gaming laptop-but it is the ONLY Linux distro I have ever installed that "just worked" without any fuss with video or sound cards. Even Ubuntu gave me issue with my preferred Nvidia graphics adaptors.

If the LM developers can make that happen with a Debian base I'm all in!!
 
2 years ago

Martin_Ziegler
I dont promote this idea, because of the combability with games for linux.
Almost all Games using Steam are only released for ubuntu.
If these games are running on Debian-based Mint too, I'd promote tis idea.
 
2 years ago

Nix280
Debian all the way. I'm very happy that the Linux Mint main edition is now based on Ubuntu LTS and the LMDE is now based on Debian Stable, however I think it could be even better if developer time was strictly targeted at Debian Stable instead of Ubuntu and Debian. LM is the top average user desktop oriented Linux distribution of all time, why not break grounds even faster?  
2 years ago

rmouthaan
I like the idea too. Why double clutching with Ubuntu which also derives from Debian. I love to see a stable debian with Cinnamon as my desk.  
2 years ago

openfred
Good idea
2 versions based on Mint: stable and testing
If no more time is spent on Ubuntu, time may be use to concentrate on Debian.
LMDE based on stable (Cinnamon, Mate, Xfce, KDE)
LMDE based on testing, with update packs (Cinnamon, Mate, Xfce, KDE)
 
2 years ago

randysvh
I liked the idea, but my experience with LMDE was not good enough to share it with my customers and novice users so I would only support this if an improvement over the base debian can be as solid as has been found in Ubuntu versions of the past. Stability is my main concern and the ability to share the OS with a novice without concern of a crash, or issue with a program working or not. The big advantages using debian alone is that it is far lighter and the rolling releases. I like the stability and solid releases of the Ubuntu base, just do not like the bloating.  
3 years ago

DestinFaroda
Debian has the advantage of being a rolling release distro which means constant updates instead of constantly installing new versions from DVDs.
Besides, leaving the broken Ubuntu base behind means that Clem and Co. can fully concentrate on one distribution -> Debian. Shouldn't that make things easier?
 
3 years ago

Danielbrazilian
If linux mint use Debian stable as base providing the latest kernel and ATI/Nvidia drivers from mint repositories we would become better than ubuntu at all so i promote this idea 100%!  
3 years ago

JohnRG
I suspect this is a good idea and support the idea, mainly as it means not basing Mint on a base that is based on something else. This has been stated by others as well. Ubuntu is based on Debian; Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu.

However, ONLY do this if the current desktop environments continue to be supported. I made one attempt to use LMDE, then discoved the team had dropped XFCE support.
 
3 years ago

DrakeMint
I stated it recently on a topic at the LMDE forum, LMDE is ROCK SOLID.
It has 'minor' rough edges, and if the team could close the gap, which could be done i suspect, then there's a nr-1 position to be taken on the Distro Land, at least in my humble opinion, as I'm not a developer.
While Steam-OS is working towards a game solution on a Debian base, this could certainly mean passing the final-frontier for Win users also.
 
3 years ago

grungy_me
I would totally like to see this. Independence from Ubuntu which could care less about the community and doesn't directly support helping Debian grow and progress. And I despise the now shortened supported time releases of nine months. I'd much prefer to have a rolling release based on Debian unstable so it works with newer hardware, that is updated regularly. The current Mint Debian edition is nice, but is not quite there in terms of feature parity and ease of use that the Ubuntu based editions have. And it is not updated regularly.  
4 years ago

blaine00
I'm currently using LMDE, and I love it... but it isn't quite up to the standards of the Ubuntu version as far as ease of use goes. I think if the team could close the gap in usability, and make the updates more reliable (I had to do research to find out how to install UP7 without breaking my system... which is why I don't currently recommend it to noobs) I think this would be a great idea. They are nearly there.  
4 years ago

dougpess
if with packages debian stable and newer kernel, alright.  
4 years ago

enroxorz
I think moving away from Ubuntu, especially since Mir is around the corner, is the best route for LM.  
4 years ago

suaefar
++ stability is the reason why i switched from ubuntu 12.10 to LMDE :)  
4 years ago

opencoder
i'm opposed to stability, i'm for progress. only ubuntu-based.
debian is good grandfather.
 
4 years ago

sagirfahmid3
I absolutely AGREE with this. Ubuntu has went downhill since the good old days of 10.04 (Mint 9). LMDE is buggy as hell and I wouldn't even recommend it to the best computer hacker/programmer in the world because he would fail to debug and fix it.

Furthermore, Ubuntu just stole EVERYTHING from Debian and polished it up a little, promoted it, and made it "famous" among the illiterate computer users of the world. I don't get why all you people think Ubuntu is so much better than Debian when it really IS NOT. Ok, maybe your graphics card didn't work out of the box on Debian. BOO HOO, it's not like Windows doesn't have the same problem; try running a GPU without drivers and see how well your computer runs videos or games. What? your wireless card isn't working? BOO HOO, did you forget that Windows needs drivers too, and that drivers come on a CD from which you must install the drivers? Please, don't make that lame argument that "Oh, Debian can't run my GPU/wireless-card but Ubuntu can because it comes with [SOME] drivers by default and therefore Debian sucks and Ubuntu rules" because you just make yourself look like an idiot. Debian could do the same thing that Ubuntu did much QUICKER because they wouldn't have to RE-build from a code-base the same way that Ubuntu has to from Debian's code-base.

I myself was a Mint (Ubuntu) 10.04 user for 2 years, but I switched to Debian and have not switched to Ubuntu ever since (because I know what's going on at Canonical. Mark Shuttlecrap has been too busy focusing about making profits more than a quality distribution. He has twisted Linux in the sense that, instead of being a quality, free-OS that Linus and GNU and many sincere volunteers have together created with much hard work, has become a commercial piece of crap of an OS. Ubuntu hes embarked on the journey to becoming the new Apple or Microsoft).

TLDR version: Ubuntu sucks; Ubuntu is buggy; LMDE is buggy; Mark Shuttlecrap sucks; we should move Mint forwards and not backwards (like Ubuntu), therefore, we should from now on, base Linux Mint on a Debian base (preferably on Debian Stable, but offer a Testing version if possible).
 
4 years ago

mid_kid
I disagree. Yes, ubuntu is getting buggier. But the only reason i use mint is because it's based on ubuntu. I am really used to ubuntu and many things that work on it don't work on debian.
The reason i want to stick with ubuntu is the amount of support. Ubuntu has a bigger community and more apps made for it. I would switch back to ubuntu if the main mint runs on debian...
 
4 years ago

mintystark
I agree.
Yes, there is LMDE.
But what I think the main point is that the Mint team should spend more time on LMDE and not on versions based on Ubuntu.
LMDE runs faster and is more responsive which is one of my biggest gripes about Ubuntu/Linux Mint. I have just tested Fedora 17 and it even runs faster and is more responsive then Ubuntu/Linux Mint.
However, there are many issues with Debian based software and Hardware compatibility, plus it is not as easy to use. If only those issues could be resolved then we could have best of both worlds.
PS. Linux Mint is faster and more responsive then Ubuntu, but still not as fast as Debian or fedora on my systems anyways.
 
4 years ago

Abderraouf
you can use Mint that based on debian -_________-  
4 years ago

kaddy
Or maybe using the Ubuntu base as normal then going independent and building upon it...  
5 years ago

josefg
I too agree it should be based on debian stable.  
5 years ago

gauravjuvekar
Compatibility with all ubuntu programs is important. All programs that run on Ubuntu should run on Mint. That's one of the key features of Mint. Since most linux software developers focus on compatibility with Ubuntu, compatibility between Ubuntu and Mint is essential  
5 years ago

pazuzuthewise
Demoting: LMDE is not nearly as user friendly as the Ubuntu-based editions. The debian repositories included in Lmde lack certain software that I frequently use, like wine. Also, I'd lack the launchpad ppa system. From my subjective standpoint, Ubuntu's main drawback is unity, and the annoyance of having to download codecs, java etc.  
5 years ago

toto_de_France
Hello,
The main advantages of ubuntu are its excellent hardware detection during installation and the large number of applications in synaptic.
The last LTS will live 5 years.
His problem is Unity, which gives hopeful to Mint!
 
5 years ago

prjolivet
One more reason:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/New-Kernel-Vulnerabilities-Affect-Ubuntu-11-10-267288.shtml
 
5 years ago

heart4pc
I agree that this needs to be done. Because Mint is independent and it is better to go directly to the source than to build on top of a ship that already has been build. And changed with its defects. Lets build our own cruse ship!  
6 years ago

Pariah
for those who make note of the obvious existence of the LMDE, just bear in mind people..i wrote this a year ago!  
6 years ago

cyclooctane
I agree with germulvey, if the main addition goes to a Debian base it should be Debian stable.
Nothing is more annoying then having to fix a production system after an update broke it.
 
6 years ago

blueXrider
can't say which direction Mint is headed right now Linux Mint 11 LXDE RC2 released! Guess see how that works out  
6 years ago

germulvey
I agree the ubuntu base is becoming a pain, for me anyway. Massive changes dumped on the users, some of which are clearly not ready - like it or lump it mentality. But to base off debian for the main edition would require it to be off the stable repos not testing. The average user want's to use their pc, not work out why it broke suddenly. So yes if the base moved to debian stable then I would agree it could be a popular and an excellent move. I would certainly like it.  
6 years ago

Alexio
@kev_v1_16 - You may use Fusion Linux, a Fedora Remix for advanced desktop users. Fusion Linux is very much influenced by Linux Mint and its community.  
6 years ago

kev_v1_16
my vote at this point is fedora for a new base. although i am not very well versed with other bases, i have been tried all different kinds of distro's lately cause none of the last 3 mint distro's would work out of the box for my latest system. it was "mint's" ability to work out of the box that i even got into using linux but the last 3 distro's have gotten slower and slower and hardware detection has slipped badly as well. i used to love mint but now it has lost it's luster and useability, and as much as i hate to say it win 7 has been very good to me but i badly want to replace it with mint but i am not willing to work in the termnal to get things working like they should out of the "box". the only reason i have suggested fedora as a base is cause it is the only distro that not only fully works out of the box for me and my hardware ( all of it including my built in webcam and mic) it is very light on system resource's. they have gnome 3 working stable as well. just my 2 cents worth , kev  
6 years ago

awesomeman
LMDE exists so why change the main edition?  
6 years ago

obakfahad
Disagree...there is still LMDE.  
6 years ago

JohanSJA
I don't see the need in near future. :)  
6 years ago

mikefreeman
This new move to monthly update packages rather than a true rolling distro (which has caused many update problems), makes this idea a bit more appealing than LMDE was before. However, I'm still concerned about the reduction in software availability.

For example, I use Ubuntu Tweak a lot to clean my system, tweak settings, and get new PPA's. This doesn't function on Debian, and I can't seem to find an equivalent that's just as simple to use. Can I get software from getdeb.net or ubuntugames.com? Nope. At least not with any certainty of compatibility. And PPA's are significantly easier to use than repositories (mainly because they handle their own GPG key installation).

As my main system, I'm running the Ubuntu-based Katya (admittedly tweaked to minimize the crud that Ubuntu passed our way on this one), with LMDE on a VM. With my current Ubuntu PPA's and Debian repositories, I have approximately 2,000 more software packages on the Ubuntu-based Mint PPA's than I've been able to squeeze out of the Debian-based Mint repos. There are proprietary software that releases debs listed for Ubuntu, but not Debian (Hulu desktop for example). I really want to use that software, but can I be sure that they work on Debian without risking the installation and hoping it works? Nope. This just isn't good for new users coming from a Windows world.

We really need to stick to Ubuntu (even though I hate the mess they've made of this last release) and release LMDE as a side project until Mint or Debian has a solid enough following to stand on its own with proprietary software companies. For now, in the mainstream world, Linux = Ubuntu and/or Fedora. So for mainstream support, that's where we need to stay until the situation changes.
 
6 years ago

kip-
I like the fact "rollover" which debian is.. I agree its bit more harder than ubuntu but thats mint.. most user friendly distro on earth..I suggesting keep mint as it is for mine edition and debian should become something like shadow edition..  
6 years ago

yves910
Yes, it's more difficult but Debian is more stable and without commercial deviation.  
6 years ago

Snookybear
I love Linux Mint. I admit I am a newbie to Linux but I learn more every day. I think that it is great being Debian based. I have no problems with it.  
6 years ago

limotux
just to answer... I personally tend to stick with LMDE, and hope to see 2 things:
1- A KDE version
2- Possibility to revert back or downgrade packages to earlier version if the user doesn't like the latest version.
 
6 years ago

limotux
Not an easy decission to take!
Maybe we need to state pros and cons of both, rank them, weigh them and decide.
Following Ubuntu:
*Pros:
- large community and user base
- more hardware support
- active (or software development)
- LinuxMint based on Ubuntu makes it more polished and tweaked than Ubuntu
- (Please add other pros if any)
* Cons
- Quality as compared to Debian or other distros is questionable
- Being a "company-backed distro ... ahem... somehow scares me... because in the final analysis it is really "Money" that decides not the community (the core soul of linux power), the community can be greatly marginalized)
- (please add other cons if any)

Following Debian:
* Pros
- Debian is purely (AFAIK) a community based distro, so should be more powerful. (see my last cons up there)
- Debian is much more stable and .. mmm "well cooked" as compared to Ubuntu.
- We already have LMDE, as a rolling release, so we already have a seed, a "reason" to build on and stick with Debian.
- (please add other Pros if any)
* Cons
- Debian is not that user friendly, ESPECIALLY FOR NEWBIES, Newbies I think should be the targeted market.
- Less hardware supported (as far as I read others saying)
- (please list other cons if any)
* Conclusion:
It is not that easy to decide, of course the best is to have a distro that have pros of both and avoid cons of both. Maybe I'd suggest soeone take it from here and do a SWOT Analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis), or Ishikawa diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishikawa_diagram) or both to help come out with the best distro ever!

 
6 years ago

wanda
rc-editions are bad.  
6 years ago

plankgas
No switch to Debian,Maybee it's beter just to follow the lts-edition and forget the rc-editions.  
6 years ago

mhuma3
Mint should just stick with the Ubuntu base. Ubuntu is already popular; the philosophy, package system, forums and answers et c. Mint should build on this solid foundation and finish the work that the Ubuntu team did 3/4 way.

It takes alot of reading and google searching for a new user to switch to linux, Ubuntu (and by extension Mint) have the most easy to find answers due to the popularity and participation of users.
 
6 years ago

EraqEE
Good point! Ubuntu is changing too fast and the existing bugs simply carry on from 1 version to another. New Ubuntu versions have a lot more bugs than their predecessors, it seems.

 
6 years ago

scinite
Both the Edition makes sense, what is needed, is to make Debian addition even more refined, allow people to choose what they feel better. Debian edition speed makes lots of attraction rather than new bugs in Ubuntu base edition which were solved in older editions. If Ubuntu will go like this, community will definitely change its preference.  
6 years ago

Argent
I don't think this works with the way Mint is perceived and presumably intended. It might still be needed if Ubuntu continues to enact bad ideas, but for now it's a no.  
6 years ago

wanda
I think so as it is ... it is good.
Different Mints Built on Debian and the boat parade on Ubuntu (user friendly).
 
6 years ago

neko
Ubuntu is based on Debian so back to the roots! ;)  
6 years ago

RedLeg
But there is a LMDE already.  
6 years ago

renatortb
I think it can be really good for LM and users. About "Debian is not user-friendly", i think that the pure debian is not, but LMDE is a lot more friendly and with improvements it can be more and more easily...  
6 years ago

kazztan0325
Debian is not user-friendly.  
6 years ago

SunWukong
When I finally got sick enough of the decisions being made by Canonical to start looking for a different distribution, I wanted one that wouldn't be too different from what I was used to. Seeing as Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, it seemed like the natural choice.

Since to me, Linux Mint is essentially Ubuntu done right, I would be fairly sad to see it cutting its ties to my old operating system. I also think other people in my shoes might end up passing it up if that were to happen. Ubuntu is popular for a reason, after all.
 
6 years ago

AllGamer
also it's worth mentioning, there's a PRO side to follow ubuntu releases, as ubuntu has a larger user support base

if you are new to the Linux world, you'll usually feel lost without a good user base support, which is the greatest perk from the ubuntu community.

in due time as people realises Mint is a better choice, then we'll slowly develop into a huge user base as ubuntu, then regardless of which branch of the tree we follow, there'll be good help and support for the newcomers to the Linux universe.
 
6 years ago

AllGamer
the base original debian doesn't have enough hardware support for newer and even older hardware

ubuntu has more hardware support

now if Mint can compensate for debian's lack of hardware support and pull it off ubuntu's universe, or better yet create our own, then it'll work out just fine.
 
6 years ago

unexistance
'Base' future Mint on Debian
- Humanizing Debian?
- out-of-the-box experience

Pro
- no more re-installing OS every 6 months
- debian felt faster

Con
- a bit unstable? that's what mintUpdate + testers is for
- Installer?
 
6 years ago

ashtoash
Maybe yes, maybe no.

In my opinion LDME: make debian worse than windows
 
6 years ago

nhlop
I would use LMDE with KDE desktop. Gnome gives pure capabilities and have pure looks.
Pariah is right. Ubuntu became similar on Fedora or other rpm-based distribution. 6 month release cycle is too short to yield good result, and at the same time repositories of LTS often long period are not updated.For example clamav in official repositories many times had outdated.
 
6 years ago

trollboy
There is already LMDE and LMDE (XFCE) for those who want to try it. And frankly it's no more difficult than the Ubuntu based versions. Updates have the potential to be a bit more interesting as LMDE is based on testing.

LMDE: Lets Make Debian Easy!
 
6 years ago

wanda
Dreams are illusions. (humor modus).  
6 years ago

prativasic
Well, I don't think it's necessary. And Mark S. was right that the distributions of Linux are already so much unorganized. There is a plenty of reasons to argue for mint to base on debian mainly. Right now, I just wanna say that people wants security, stability and usability with their OS and they don't really like option. So, in fact, my dream is that one day all the debian distro-s will merge to single one.  
6 years ago

loukoumas
good idea,but we should not forget that Ubuntu is based on Debian

 
6 years ago

ZoltanBreller
Pure Debian is good for your computer, but you have to be a Jedi or experienced Padawan to use it. Let us not forget our beginning Padawans in the Linux-land. Ubuntu is good to them and is far much better than the dark side (Windooz :o) Conclusion: Basing Mint on Debian is/was/stays an awesome idea, but I would not abandon the Ubuntu branch.  
6 years ago

ReckouNT
And, LMDE need's KDE version.
Gnome 3 actually is a shit.
 
6 years ago

ReckouNT
1 week ago

sythe
Are you guys crazy?! Mint is supposed to be newbie-friendly. IT'S NOT FEDORA. IT'S NOT BUILT FOR POWER USERS!
---
GTFO and install Ubuntu. That's really user-friendly.

 
6 years ago

Ciprian
If it is OK and possible, try a combination between Ubuntu and Debian. Every OS have pros&cons;. In a fiew years it is possible that you all will say let`s switch back to Ubuntu. We will never know... Like someone says here Mint is for newbies, try to promote Linux not to make it hard to use, even if is made "bullteproof". I think Hybrid is better for everyone. And another cool thing is to keep the friendly user interface. anyway, Ubuntu is also based after Debian.

I wish you all the best! Ciprian from Romania.
 
6 years ago

DynamicMan
I'm running LMDE right now, just switched from Ubuntu 10.10. So far the only things that hasn't been as newbie-friendly as I'm used to from Ubuntu is the lack of a GUI to handle proprietary drivers, and that when I upgrade I get asked about keeping or updating some config files that I never heard about before. Both these slight problems seems like they could be easily fixed in time.

Meanwhile, my desktop feels incredibly responsive and non-buggy compared to when I was using Ubuntu. So far, I am impressed with LMDE and very happy that I made the switch.

I understand that there would be some serious drawbacks with abandoning Ubuntu as the base for LM, but I still think it should be seriously considered as a long term plan.

I think a well-executed debian-based Linux Mint would have much better potential to attract newbie users than the latest editions of Ubuntu ever had, assuming it is possible to get adequate hardware support in such a distribution, of course, as well as polish the rough edges somewhat.
 
6 years ago

Badger47
The creation of MintXFCE based on debian has opened my eyes to a much better experience than i was beginning to feel with Ubuntu directions. I like the concept of a running release without the hassles of the 6 monthly release approach. Ubuntu has immeasurably moved linux forward over past 4 years and my enjoyment of it, however (aint it always the case) it seems to be moving in directions dictated by its market positioning now, and thats fine, but not for my needs.  
6 years ago

Alexio
@sythe - Fusion Linux aims to be to Fedora what Linux Mint is to Ubuntu. It uses the mintMenu and even some ideas from this community website.

You can see Fusion Linux in action on the new Linux Mint Community Videos website.
 
6 years ago

groovydaddy
Here's my thing: If it isn't broken, don't fix it. :) I think that basing the "Main" version of Mint on Ubuntu and having Debian based versions available already solves this issue anyway. The Main edition will be newbie friendly, and the Debian version will be available for intermediate/advanced users.  
6 years ago

sythe
Are you guys crazy?! Mint is supposed to be newbie-friendly. IT'S NOT FEDORA. IT'S NOT BUILT FOR POWER USERS!  
6 years ago

sythe
Bad idea.  
6 years ago

AndreaB
Installed Linux Mint Debian yesterday, wouldn't have installed any other Linux Mint version ;-)  
6 years ago

Lumenary
I believe that in order to reach the widest audience, Mint should continue to be based (at its core) on Ubuntu. This will allow Mint to reach the widest audience with the least amount of hardware pain.

Although I do not like what GNOME is doing with regard to its transition to Gnome Shell, and do not believe Canonical's Unity UI to be ready for "prime-time," I believe that Canonical provides a very solid base with Ubuntu.
 
6 years ago

maverickjesterx
I think Ubuntu is still doing quite a good job. I don't think quality is an issue. I think the issue is more of trying to please "software groups" like Gnome for example. I really don't like the direction Gnome is heading although I am a gnome user. I have not tried the new version so what I have said, I say very lightly.
Now with that said I totally agree that Mint should be more in line with Debian directly rather than Ubuntu. After all Debian is the father of both. Honestly (in most cases) would you rather get information from your father or brother?
 
6 years ago

dardevelin
Hey guys... I'm pretty new to Linux, mainly because I always heard good about Ubuntu and every time i tried got some serious trouble... Now I'm converting myself to Linux, in more detail, Mint Debian and so far so good, actually just erased my windows partition today and pretty happy about it :D  
6 years ago

greg84pl
Stability of Debian
Friendly use as Mint
Yes yes yes :-)
 
6 years ago

fujaru
Totally agree.
Ubuntu's direction away from the community of users, its Unity shell, and the competition against GNOME 3, might impact LM's development as a community-driven OS.
 
6 years ago

ddavid123
I agree with syemvlis, Mint should move to Debian! The Main edition should be based on Debian stable (squeeze currently) and all other editions based on Debian testing. However, having said that, the Mint team should be able to prove that the new "main" edition is at least on par with the current "main" edition (Ubuntu) as far as features and functionality goes! Any features lacking in the Debian base can be ported by the Mint team from other distros. (Ubuntu)

It has been my impression that all the other releases like KDE, LXDE etc were "community" releases. I can see the "community" edition with Gnome, KDE, LXDE etc. having a new ISO build every three months or so as the main edition has a one year release cycle! Just my two cents worth!
 
6 years ago

autocrosser
I agree with this idea. Ubuntu is straying away from the Distro I helped with gusto & is headed in a direction that will turn off a fairly large user base....Fairwell Ubuntu--I had known you well.

Debian "harnessed" by Mint is looking Very, Very Good!!!!!!!
 
6 years ago

syemvlis
I think it's the right way - I prefer 2 releases (One with Debian testing + one based on stable)  
6 years ago

Whiskey66
Very impressed with Linux Mint. I installed it on a virtual machine - Oracle VM Box & it was very easy & fast! good job!  
6 years ago

ibrahimsuprapto
Totally agree. Ubuntu is very complicated now  
6 years ago

pvd2010
The move to Debian direction is a very good idea and it should be reality.  
6 years ago

Zer0
First Linux OS I ever tried was Ubuntu. I'm probably being biased, and I've never used Debian... Yet. I find myself to be attracted to KDE. And Kubuntu didn't seem as 'polished' as Linux Mint KDE.

I'd have to say KDE all the way, perhaps until I try Debian. ;)
 
6 years ago

friTTe
Great ideo sort of, i think it could be like it is now.
Regular Ubuntu versions and a separate Debian, can be hard to convince all users to switch over.

Concerning myself..wouldnt let any Ubuntu near my computers..those are strictly Debian :)
 
6 years ago

Elmacus
I have tried Ubuntu, several version, and something strange happens between them, hardware that worked, stops work and so on.
Have also tried Fedora.
From start a was convinced not to try Mint becouse of piggyback on Ubuntu, but on distrowatch i saw that there was an Debian version.
Debian as base feels solid to me, thats why i now run LMDE.
I trust LMDE enough now to have it on all my computers, incl wife and work (tot 5).
My advise is: Dont let Mint have ubuntu as middlelayer to Debian.
Good stuff from Ubuntu(if they make some?) finds its way back to Debian anyway ?
 
6 years ago

hahoemil
I think the real question is to support Debian unstable directly or indirectly (through Ubuntu). It is an important strategic question, but maybe the pressure is not high enough now to abandon (or to replace) the unique values of Ubuntu.
At the same time there is a missing link in LM: LM can't be simply "Debian or Ubuntu based". (More is here: http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/view/1289)
 
6 years ago

mikefreeman
zaenal1234: the problem with Debian's 100% free (as in freedom, not beer) philosophy is that newbies (the target audience of LM) will not accept an operating system that doesn't include by default things like Flash, non-free codecs, proprietary drivers for graphics and wifi cards, and other niceties. Free software isn't nearly up to par yet. Gnash doesn't cut it and the "free" drivers just don't support everything needed yet. If Mint took on Debian's 100% free philosophy, Mint wouldn't be able to call itself a newbie-friendly distro. Also, while I agree that free open-source software is ultimately better, I personally don't have a problem with the "smells of money" proprietary licensing, if it offers something that wouldn't exist otherwise. It's still just as free (as in beer) as Debian is (which never says it has to be), so being for "humanity" who couldn't afford paying for software doesn't even enter the picture.

Also, I think Ubuntu has been demonized a bit more than they probably should be. Yeah, they've got some problems, and I know a lot of Linux elitists hate the commercial and non-free side of Ubuntu. However, they've got some really good things going as well. They are the most widely supported, since they have the largest user base. Just for the simple fact that they are so popular, its use by LM has ensured that just about any software out there has .deb packages and PPA's compatible with LM. If we switch to Debian, that cannot be said. Not all Ubuntu .debs and repositories are Debian compatible (at least last time I used Debian). So some software would be more difficult to find, might need to be compiled, etc. - all things not at all newbie-friendly.

As I said before, until Mint has the resources to supply on their own all of the things that Ubuntu offers us, we really shouldn't resort to such a drastic step as being solely Debian-based.
 
6 years ago

Ioseph
Debian is working for me. LMDE is the distro I'm VERY comfortable using as a somewhat n00b to linux.  
6 years ago

AlbertP
Isn't it possible to use Debian as a base, and include everything that their repositories lack (but Ubuntu have) in the Mint repos? Maybe it's even possible to include the Ubuntu repository in Debian, to provide packages or newer kernels that Debian does not have (I thought Ubuntu and Debian were heading for more compatibility with each other's repositories?). By that, Mint users are free to install Unity on a Mint system.

Or isn't there another non-rolling distribution, that we can use as a base for future versions? It even does not need to be using DEB files, we could probably get the RPM-version of APT from Fedora and make a combined version that supports both RPM and DEB. Base it on Mandriva for example, with some added repositories for closed-source and Mint-specific things, but keep our easy Ubiquity installer?
 
6 years ago

orionthehunter
I actually don't see much of an advantage to staying with Ubuntu. They're moving so far away from the style of desktop that Mint strives to create it seems only logical to regroup with Debian.  
6 years ago

mnoveli
I totally agree - Base future Mints on Debian not Ubuntu
 
6 years ago

ludwigbaum
I like to bring fire to frozen ideas. You think I missed the point, when I said "Linux is lost" and underlined the necessity of standardization, of bundling the forces. Read the following link, and you will see, that there is no way to Debian:

http://dreamlinuxforums.org/index.php?topic=6791.0

Perhaps, the upcoming standard is ... OS-Chrome. We all will be googled around that our heads become spinning. Hard times, hard times ...
 
6 years ago

wanda
A hot discussion, that I can do and I learn from them.  
6 years ago

zaenal1234
great for @mikefreeman, a addition:
linux is for humanity, because it is free for people who do not have money for software.
if all the linux distro have entered something that smells of money for sale by its license, it is better to switch to debian.
which committed to free 100%. and with reality Debian is very stable.
about is less user friendly, it can corrected in order to become user friendly.
 
6 years ago

tcc559
yes but if you port to ubuntu releases in the future im sure that will do more harm than good.

debian is my favourite linux distro, and it seems alot easier with commands (even if they are fairly similar)

ive had bad experiences with ubuntu on the hardware side of things, frequently missing wireless devices, but debian finds them with no problem.

ubuntu really annoys me when i install a server edition and its missing packages and will not unpack every .bin files, whereas debian has no problem.

overall my experience with debian vs ubuntu is pretty solid, i prefer mint to base itself on debian not ubuntu.
 
6 years ago

mikefreeman
ludwigbaum:

First, I'm not sure how that's relevant specifically to this idea.

Second, I don't think you're quite right. Atari, Commodore, and Tandy (Radio Shack) were companies competing in a relatively brand-new market. Everyone was jockeying for position. Each with its own niche. For the most part, IBM was aimed at business, Apple at education, Atari at musicians, and Commodore at artists and gamers, etc., at least in the beginning. Whatever their degree of success, what dominated was the one that controlled the business sector. It also didn't help that Microsoft was involved in some shady deals that secured its position. Some (like Atari) were doomed by their own mistakes. They made great hardware, but failed to market it, and alienated their distributors.

Now Linux is a completely different animal. It's point is not to dominate a market or make a profit. It's never lost, because it's not in "the race". It's there to serve as an alternative to the mainstream. It doesn't need to dominate anything. It's there when people need it.

You said, "Android got more installations in 6 months than Linux in 10 years. It promises to be a standard, and it meets the needs." Well, in reality, Android IS Linux. It's just a distro aimed at the portable device market. And the reason it has taken off so fast is that it has corporate backing doing heavy advertising. Other distros don't have that, and don't need that. Linux does have a standard - the kernel that all distros share. But that standard has been implemented in varying ways in order to meet specific needs better than a single unified platform can. That's a strength, not a weakness.

Now, to what this conversation is about: Debian vs. Ubuntu as a base. I think this is all about which direction Mint wants to head. While Ubuntu has had its share of bugs, it is the top distro out there (again, it has some marketing behind it), so it's got better overall support than any other. Debian is for experienced users (aka not very newbie friendly), but it is incredibly stable. If Mint could make its way to at least the software support level that Ubuntu has (which is a tough proposition), then switching to Debian would be a no-brainer. Mint would just bring its software support along with it. But as it stands, Mint depends in part on Ubuntu's software for its own user-friendliness. It would lose that switching to Debian.
 
6 years ago

Elisa
@ludwigbaum : that's "nice" u speak about your "experiences" w. Ubuntu and cryin' about they're not out of the box, linux is lost and any other "cool news"... :rolling eyes:
And what about Linux MINT ???? At least the 9th ver., gnome or KDE, huh?
I am sute Mint is the best and easiest distros and in 99% u shouldn't have any problems or if by chance having any, they're could be solved easy thanks cool forums => forums.linuxmint.com
Goodluck, dude!
 
6 years ago

ludwigbaum
Linux is lost. This is not a problem of the distro-base. The community is not able to bundle its forces and to create a really painless system, running out of the box on any machine. I installed Ubuntu 7.04 to 10.10, Fedora, Mandriva, OpenSuse and Debian on several Laptops, perhaps 50 installations. The problems encountered transform life in a hell. And by now, Windows 7 (which I don't like) is preinstalled and does a better job than the early XP or Vista, with an enormous amount of software.
In 1980-1990, the arrival of IBM/MSDOS condemned Atari, Commodore, Radio Shack (TRS-line), because it promised a working standard. I don't see the different interest-groups within the Linux-world on a way to a comparable standardization. Android got more installations in 6 months than Linux in 10 years. It promises to be a standard, and it meets the needs.
 
6 years ago

johnsmith2000
Good idea. I think that Mint staying close with Debian is a good plan. Ubuntu is a commercial operation. And, there's no knowing what is going to happen with it. My guess is that it is going to turn all corporate sooner or later. Right now Mint is sort of like a drunken Irish man with some tassles on screaming at the football game. The football game is Debian. Mint needs to stay close with Debian, cut ties with all corporate crap, and start building it's own codebase. Who knows, in a few years, Mint might even become its own O/S?

Ubuntu was meant to be the polished and user friendly Debian for the average user. Mint is like an ultra polished Ubuntu. I think that if Mint cuts out the middleman then that would be a good thing.

Just throwing in my no sense on the matter.
 
6 years ago

Anubis
As long as the distro still "works" out of the box, i wouldn't mind. (although i have always leaned towards debian in the past ;p)  
6 years ago

LizardGamer
I believe that this is a great idea because I noticed more and more bugs are being not fixed in Ubuntu.

Like I noticed a bug sometimes when downloading on Ubuntu that downloads will just stop for no reason.

@Skywalker I do believe that Debian is less user friendly but with community help it can be made friendly if this idea is made true
 
6 years ago

Skywalker
I have to disagree with Pariah. Although Debian might be better in some aspects than Ubuntu, if the philosophy of Linux Mint is to make a more user friendly distribution of Linux, then that is easier to accomplish with Ubuntu as the base. The Linux Team themselves say: "Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges." They list this as a Con on the LMDE page. Also, Debian has more problems with video card and audio card compatibility than Ubuntu, contrary to what some users claim. Finally, as a Linux Mint user, you can rely both on these forums as well as Ubuntu forums for problems you run into. As many newbies will state, the Debian forums and their users have a tendency towards intellectual arrogance. I saw this stated on a couple of "Debian vs. Ubuntu" articles. They stated that they recommend Ubuntu because the community is friendlier in accepting newbies than Debian.  
6 years ago

Bailx
Personally I didn't like the LMDE over Mint 10, based on Ubuntu of course, although I do agree with the arguement to head in this direction... but as some people have mentioned, they should really try to add in those features that Ubuntu made easy, like the video drivers.

I am a long time user of Red Hat, and I've never really liked Fedora (way too buggy). I use Centos in all of my servers, but I have used it as a Desktop with compiz and nvidia drivers... and it can do everything, it just takes a LOT of work... and things tend to break unless you restrict certain updates for metacity, etc....

I guess my point here is... The Linux Mint Project is awesome... and they seem to want to be trying different distros out. I would give my vote to perhaps looking into RHEL 6 code, and possibly taking that to the next level...

Just look at Windows NT, that kernel was based on server development... and from that we got 2000/XP/7, which I still try to avoid using, but you have to admit they are way better than 95/98/ME. (Yeah I intentionally leave Vista out).
 
6 years ago

ferdi6917
vote for LMDE  
6 years ago

azguz
agree  
6 years ago

Elisa
BTW, if Debian or Ubuntu way, the most what I'd invite is rolling way....
E.g. now I use Mint 9 KDE, I like it. Also I installed the latest core - 2.6.37-020637-generic #201101050908 SMP, it seems it's workin' :-))
It's a pity now to change it all and install again the Mint 10 KDE when it'll be released... :-|
 
6 years ago

Pagan
Yes I agree, Ubuntu's path is taking away from the community. Clem and company have done a wonderful job of cleaning up Ubuntu. I believe that Mint has reached the point to where it should cut it's ties to Ubuntu and go directly to the the source. Also Ubuntu's insane dev cycle of 6 month releases's is insane IMO. I say it's time to source from Debian, have a rolling distro and only have major release every year at the most. Maybe tie the major releases to the release cycle of the desktop for the release? You know KDE, Gnome, etc.?  
6 years ago

marshcast
Yeah, do it! ;)
I'd love to learn more about linux & less about ubuntu.
Would need a big commitment and a lot of work for the dev's though.
A main reason for my wanting this though is the 'community' aspect of debian. I think it deserves all the support it can get in recognition of it's efforts, commitment and ethics.
Kudos to Debian AND the LXDE team.
 
6 years ago

wanda
LMDE is nicht so install freundlich fur neu anfanger und das is schade.
Er solte daselbe install program haben wie zumbeispiel Isadora9 damit noch mehr Personen umsteigen.
 
6 years ago

paro1991
LMDE 64-bit has my support.  
6 years ago

friTTe
A nice idea, always felt that Debian is r4eally stable.
And i guess Mint can use of the userfriendlyness tweaks.
 
6 years ago

wanda
true.  
6 years ago

zaenal1234
true.  
6 years ago

kriskardiak
As a new user of Mint LMDE I 100% agree.  
6 years ago

ahsan366
The whole idea of mint is to make linux as user friendly as possible for beginners. Debian is for intermediate and advanced users and the whole point of Ubuntu was what Mint is doing now. If something/someone looses the reason for its existence, it fails.  
6 years ago

Elisa
I haven't tested LMDE yet but the idea is cool and I imagine it like to be more close to Debian as "Aptosid" is closed to Debian (Sid) ;-)  
6 years ago

crhylove
I think that this idea won't have merit until the LMDE version is solidified a little more. For instance the partitioner in the installer would FREAK my mom out. LOL  
6 years ago

foggytown
Ubuntu brings a lot of added value to Debian, it seems silly to discard that.  
6 years ago

Jac978
Since I have changed to LMDE I have no more complain.  
6 years ago

wanda
Das is das beste idea was ich gelezen habe 100 pro.  
6 years ago

mikefreeman
The only concern I have with this is that there are so many Ubuntu-specific PPA's and other Ubuntu-specific resources out there that we would lose moving to Debian. While there are frustations with Ubuntu's decisions and methods, it does have the advantage of highest popularity, and therefore the widest net of support and software availability. By all means, develop LMDE and make it available, but until Mint becomes the more widely used distro, I think it would do us a great disservice to completely switch to a Debian base at this point.  
6 years ago

joe1
My two cents: I agree with the people who say Linux Mint so be easy to use and should "work-out-of-the-box". For Linux Mint is the only linux distribution I can safely advice for all my friends and family, people who don't zippo about kernels, drivers and hardware. They want to use the computer to do the "fun" or the "productive" stuff. So if moving to Debian means better support and an easier to use OS, i'm pro, if it's only going to get more complex and unstable I would say keep the Debian version as an alternative to be chosen wisely by the "guru's" out here.  
6 years ago

crhylove
AGREED! The shortcomings of Ubuntu are the entire reason for Mint. It's time to stand on our own. I've been using LMDE for months now, it's fast, stable, clean. Best Linux distro EVER!  
6 years ago

Oppression
I think Ubuntu try very hard to make money from users and not to make better distro for users.  
6 years ago

keyneom
Right now I think the Debian edition is still struggling to be as clean as the main edition this would need to be in the future, I also think that alot of the users Mint has aren't necessarily active in the forums or on this the community site but do depend on having the added compatibility that Ubuntu brings and benefit from the fact that there are a lot of support resources they can use with Ubuntu... and though I know mint isn't built just for people new to linux a lot of people new to Linux do use Mint so its helpful to have Ubuntu behind us currently until we can actually provide for ourselves what Ubuntu currently does for us. Making a transition over time as they are currently doing would be the most intelligent decision.  
6 years ago

jxgreat
If Mint make main releases base on Debian. It will lower the compatibility with new modern programs and hardwares.

But it is good if Mint have other edition based on Debian.

In my point of view the main releases should be based on Ubuntu as it currently.
 
6 years ago

Shostako
The last version of Ubuntu until nowadays is very solid and stable for me (10.10), and improved very hard from the previous releases. However, the important changes announced in the next future versions about leaving X11 and Gnome arise many doubts about the future of Ubuntu... Perhaps in a near future the main version of Linux Mint will be based on Debian (the great distro, the master distro in my opinion), but, in this case, a x64 version of LMDE is a must have (we are in 2010, almost 2011). We'll see what happens in the next year.

 
7 years ago

drum
i share the same as Darrel  
7 years ago

Darrel
I want both LM based on Ubuntu has paided its due's,and built it's Communities, lets let LMDE do the same, nothings says we can not be part of both.  
7 years ago

saurabh2804
Case in point- the horrible audio problems in Ubuntu.  
7 years ago

luisnando
@Suo_Eno I disagree, i like the new softwares, but when you use a new ppa on your system you often lost some stability. And stability is of great importance on productions systems. LMDE suits very well for those who needs it (stability), and at some point you will get the news (when those packages gets known and properly tested. I hope Mint turns completely to the debian rolling...
@shoo_ash i got impressive results tweaking the laptopmode-tools on lmde, so it is not an issue to me
 
7 years ago

Suo_Eno
Most of the issues highlighted by others and here are probably "upstream" related?Maybe ALL spinners like Mint,Crunchbang,MEPIS and Jupiter should gang up to sort it out to upstairs Debian people?

It's always a good idea from a noob's (I am) perspective to cut the middleman out if we're to look at efficiencies.But having tried LMDE twice for the past 3 weeks I have to say that the biggest issue would be up to date software that's sorely lacking in the repos.Tricked the Debian Experimental repo into sources.list and then boom "fix broken packages".When that happens all you can do is take that repo source out and stick with what you have.Maybe for seasoned tweakers this isn't much of an issue but for noobs like me who nitpicks on getting the latest and greatest this can't work and especially if LMDE ever get planned to be the Main edition.

I'm worried about Ubuntu's progression in terms of sys performance hits and released bugs as well but almost every DE and apps' release will get to Ubuntu 1st same with hardware compatibility fixes.

I'm waiting to see what will happen this December probably when Squeeze gets out then maybe experimental repos can jump up the ladder then.Still that's up to Clem and team they'll need a few months after that to sort it out I suppose.
 
7 years ago

shoo_ash
Ubuntu seems to be better for notebooks than Debian, they've done some nice tweaking to lower power consumption. But Debian version should be kept for those who want it.  
7 years ago

penguinuser
There should be a Debian-based Mint for people who want it but the main Mint should continue to be Ubuntu-based.  
7 years ago

pkon
It would be nice to have a 64 bit version as well.  
7 years ago

rubengrimm
I think if Mint should ever switch to Debian they shouldn't do that in a hurry. The way it is now is just great. The Ubuntu Edtitions keep on coming and the mint programmers are playing along with a Debian Edition.

But let's just all wait until the testing repositories of Debian are unfrozen and the updates will start killing us... Then we'll see if Debian is stable enough to become the number one.

And adding a Linux Mint Debian Stable Edition can't be the right choice, since they only get updated every 2 Years or less...

On the other hand I still do like Ubuntu. I'm just not a fan of their decisions on their unity shell (which is quite nice, but just too slow for a netbook) and I don't see a shell (neither gnome shell nor unity) replacing the good ole' Window'esque taskbar Linux Mint ships with.
 
7 years ago

davi_sep
Totally agreed! i was an ubuntu fan for a few years, but lately seems like the sucess made his developers too confident about anything they do, forgetting about huge tests before launching, and letting considerable bugs persist until the the end user version.  
7 years ago

conquerortim
I totally agree with the idea.
I do worry propriatary drivers, so have well it would actually work, I don't know.
But ubuntu are doing some funny things, and Debian has much better morals.
 
7 years ago

punkrtekk
Unfortunately, on Debian does not work half of my HW and half of my favorite software is in version 1.1:-D
I understand people who want to use LMDE, so here it is. Use it and don't complain! I still think that more people will rather choose Ubuntu based Mint and that's why I think it should be number one:-)
Anyway, it is probably Clem's decision.
Btw. I would not mind downloading LMUE (Ubuntu edition) in case Debian would be the first:-D
 
7 years ago

guddl
*Thumbs up*  
7 years ago

azathoth
LMDE just makes sense. From my experience it is a superior spin of Mint and the testing repos will eventually become an LTS with a couple of simple changes for those who want that. I prefer Sid personally and that's easy too.
I would just like to see Mint distance themselves from Ubuntu, they are better than that.
And yeah, kernels are a snap. Changing kernels is as easy as adding any other repo. I've used Liquorix ever since I installed LMDE and have had a number of updates too, all without a single prob.
 
7 years ago

asymmetros
In fact is very easy to install a newer kernel in Mint Debian. Check for example that tutorial http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/158 .
It takes about five minutes and you do it once.
 
7 years ago

linux1492
You bring up a very important issue here. The quality management has to be kept up with earlier standards or better. The release circle is a big plus for Ubuntu and the philosophy behind Ubuntu is in it's principles honorable.
As for many other people, I do enjoy the good hardware support with Ubuntu and had plenty of trouble with Debian in the past. Even Fedora/Redhad was working better for me than Debian. I would not support the idea of changing LM to a Debian based system. Rising the issue of higher quality standards for Ubuntu is a better approach than changing to Debian!
 
7 years ago

armornick
Thing is, if Mint starts to use Debian, I will no longer use it, since half of my hardware doesn't work on debian yet. A newer kernel is very important for people with hardware that's even a year old. On top of that, Debian refuses to supply the Broadcom STA driver, so people with that driver will start complaining in the forums.  
7 years ago

zaenal1234
for me Ubuntu or Debian are the same, an important free of bugs, very stable, and good quality. and we continue to use the linux-mint.  
7 years ago

Baerius
but if they use only debian as base they will be able to create a new "ubuntu",implementing their ideas, rebuilding jockey-gtk(or similia),etc..
But these ideas need time..i think that this will be done in 3 /4 years..
 
7 years ago

armornick
I disagree with this idea, since ubuntu has a newer kernel and thus compatibility with more hardware. Case in point: my sound card and ethernet port worked with Ubuntu 10.10 but not with 10.04 .
Also, proprietary drivers are not included in debian distributions, which will cause many complaints from new user. Especially since the open sourced broadcom drivers are far away from Debian kernel.
 
7 years ago

Norv
Personally I love the idea of making a distro with the announced principles of Mint, based on Debian. My main distro currently is Debian Testing itself.
I don't know enough about what other Mint users like in their distro, so my opinion shouldn't matter much. Personally, I am choosing Mint because Mint chose Debian. ;)
 
7 years ago

Voreas
I don't think I agree on this. Don't forget that the vast majority of LM users prefer the main version which is based on ubuntu. But I do agree with your point that a Debian based Mint is better.  
7 years ago

jeffreyC
I can't get LMDE to work (I have problems with most Debian based distros not working on my hardware) Ubuntu based distros usually work for me. I have had nearly the same with CrunchBang, the Ubuntu works, the Debian not. If Mint stops using Ubuntu as base I'll be back to distro-hopping.  
7 years ago

axel668
Sounds good, the current rolling Testing- based LMDE could be complemented with an "LTS" version based on Debian stable. This way the different variants of Mint (XFCE, KDE, LXDE, Fluxbox, younameitWM ...) could be developed only once in testing and then just "go stable" like the rest of the distribution.  
7 years ago

siz182
I'm in favor of this, but a little hesitant to say so. LMDE was just released two weeks ago, and shows definite promise, but only time will tell.

Ubuntu has been pretty stable and had only a few minor problems on my machine. However, in 3 releases, I still have the same problems and no one thus far has been able to help me resolve them, and obviously, they were not fixed upstream. So I'm excited to see what Debian can do for Mint.

As always, thanks to guys putting these distros together, you do an amazing job. I tell everyone I can, and help people convert over when they need it. Keep up the good work!!
 
7 years ago

phil
I have tried Crunch Bang, which I liked a lot, especially since it used XFCE and am now trying out LMDE on an Intel Atom D510MO computer. It works good but the Atom processor is too lacking in function, and I do not like the menu system of Gnome. The Debian menu is tolerable but I am waiting for the LMDE with XFCE. My thoughts for that release, which I hope comes in the near future, are that it is released on a CD rather than a DVD and that it outperforms the LM9 XFCE version. I am 100% in favor of a rolling release based on Debian.  
7 years ago

rufong
mint 9 to peppermint-1 where i heard discussion on our debian edition.
mint attracted me at first for its ease of chinese input setup and i've been a fan ever since. but LMDE catches the imagination.. wow, GREAT job clem ikey and everyone involved. great work indeed!
 
7 years ago

davidwpoe
Although I had some problems with the Debian Edition - disk partitioning and wireless network card - I still think switching to the Debian Edition makes sense and allows for more creativity and stability in Linux Mint. Fix these two issues plus splash screen and its a winner!

I suggest two editions based on Debian: (1) based on testing branch of Debian with a rolling release, and (2) based on stable branch for those who want added security and stability - long term release. I think this would satisfy most Linux Mint users while also helping to separate Linux Mint from being too tied to Ubuntu releases.

Without Mint Linux I'd still be using Microsoft Windows 7 - Mint Linux provides a superior user experience and made it possible for me to really use Linux! Thanks!

 
7 years ago

tanmays
LMDE is awesome  
7 years ago

scinite
I tried LM Debian in Live. Its very responsive. running on a live CD and such a quick response I haven't seen sense Ubuntu 7.10. I changed my thinking now. If LM community takes care of very small blunt edges which Clem says it will be very good OS. I think more versatile than Ubuntu-Linux Mint Itself.  
7 years ago

scinite
Ubuntu has got nice features that Debian lacks, I think in long term Ubuntu based and Debian Based LM makes more sense to people at large. People like me who use Linux not for Geeking once self but to use as way my needs are.Clem and community should make the Debian edition very similar to Main addition rather then tring new things as Ubuntu is currently doing.  
7 years ago

ivanovnegro
Ok, great news the debian version is out.
In a couple of days I think I will install it.
Now Im downloading it to test it in my virtual machine.
Big thanks to Clem and Ikey!!
I dont think that the debian version would be more difficult, only for real newbies maybe, but you can learn to work with the debian version easily I think.
 
7 years ago

Baerius
I'm testing lmde, in a few months we'll discover which mint's spin is better.
Personally I'm promoting debian , but i think that it's more difficult compared to main edition (the lack of jockey is a crap).
If clem and other guys will spend time on simplify Lmde i think that it will replace ubuntu.
 
7 years ago

storksq
Bad, bad idea.
Crunchbang has done that. As it turns out, crunchbang was
working on all my computers (4) when it as ubuntu-based,
while the new debian based
version will not even install on 3 of them. (and it has been
called an alpha release for a long while already)

Ubuntu has become fat and slow compared to other distros but the
truth is that this is the only distibution that i have been
able to boot and/or install with no or very little problems
on any machine i tried (maybe with pclos).

I love mint, i just installed the lxde version, everything just
worked and the tuning i had to do was very minor (thoough i still have some problems here and there). Keep it this
way, it just will run on all hw.

 
7 years ago

davedarkblade
Another way is take the snapshot of the debian testing or sid repo every 8 months (i think 6 months are few) and make the new mint. This is another idea if the rolling release isn't a good one.  
7 years ago

Robin
It's got to be more problematic fixing Ubuntu's screwups than it is to "mintify" Debian. I'm no expert but I think the developers' jobs would be a heckuvalot easier with a Debian base, if only because Ubuntu makes such a buggy mess of things (along with some improvements) with every new release  
7 years ago

timloyal
I recently left mint for ubuntu again because of the constant crashing. It seems mint does great for the first moths but after a header upgrade it gets buggy. In ubuntu it just works. I think its the transition of code from ubuntu to mint and why is mint based off ubuntu anyway. when debian is the main basis. Debian is good but where you run into problems is repositories. if someone would focus on repositories and store all the programs and upgrade to those programs. ubuntu has far more in repositories than debian alone. we need to work together instead of everyone for themselves. make a distro that just works out of the box. if people want addons, dont change the distro, allow them to upgrade their machine, anyone ever heard of microsoft plus, good concept make things available for people that want it, the rest of us want stability. I can change what i want by searching the web and using the terminal.  
7 years ago

davedarkblade
I think it's a very good idea. A LM based on the repository of debian (testing or sid) and not of ubuntu. Ubuntu lacks compatibility with debian so mint can use this and become the very "debian for desktop". Now ubuntu (Mark Shuttleworth) is searching his vision of desktop and I think this a chain for mint. Ubuntu is no longer a project run by the community, maybe it never was, for this mint is more debian than ubuntu.  
7 years ago

Gramps
I like the idea of LM going out on their own using Debian as it's base and not Ubuntu. This would give Clem and his team more control over LM and they could build it into thier vision instead of polishing Ubuntu and fixing it's short comings. I also believe that this would be a big undertaking and that they would need to help of the community to pull it off. It's time to step out on it's own and get out from under the Ubuntu cloak.  
7 years ago

ivanovnegro
Yes I agree with the idea to base Mint on Debian.
I like Ubuntu and espiacilly Mint but its clear that I prefer Mint. In my opinion its true that Ubuntu becomes more and more commercial, its not bad to spread out Linux but I dont know with all this bugs now. Yes, it seems that eyecandy and this social stuff is more important then performance of an OS. This was a reason to change to Mint and its a community project without a big company behind like Canonical. I cant say that Ubuntu is bad, its really good for beginners and Mint even more but I prefer Mint because of its polished style and the Mint Menu and many more things, we all know why we are using Mint.
One thing I disliked everytime in Ubuntu is the release cycle and the upgrading. Mint has the better philosophy of clean installs but the release cycle is the same.
It would be nice to see a rolling release and that was a reason for me to play with Arch Linux. The advantage of Mint for beginners and for me is a system out of the box but these release cycles are bothering. So maybe I will go back to Arch one time.
Mint based on Debian, a really good distribution, and a rolling release that would be very nice, to have my distribution of choice, Mint, and that one with all the newest stuff I want to have.
 
7 years ago

wanda
Bin da ein sehr grosser fan von kein Ubuntu abhangigheit und keine 6 monaten cyclus.
Ein auf Debian gemachte Rolling release wahre ein traum fuer mich.
 
7 years ago

cfwschmidt
I agree with the people that said a lot of users aren't geeks, and these people want a system that just works, without having to learn extensively about the details of their system. There are a lot of distro's out there for "power-users" and all types of geeks, but the appeal of Windows to a lot of average Joe's is that they don't have to be techies to make things work (for the most part) and use the functions the majority of people use their computers for. If the Linux community is serious about giving Microsoft Windows real competition and making GNU/Linux a household name, we need distro's that cater to this. I'm not a full-fledged geek, but I know a thing or two. Even still, the reason I went with Linux Mint as my distro when I transitioned away from WinXP was that it was rated as one of the most user-friendly, stable, compatible and easy to use GNU/Linux distro's. I have a solid aptitude for tech stuff, and have been trying to improve my programming skills, but even still, I don't want to have to learn an extensive amount of new info just to get my OS to work. That's time I could be spending learning more of the skills that are relevant to my job, or playing games, or going hiking. Contrary to what a lot of Linux guru's seem to think, easy to use, beginner friendly distro's aren't just for stupid people. Some people just want their PC's to work "out-of-the-box" or "off-the-shelf" because they don't find it fun to spend 12 hours figuring out how to compile and setup their wireless adapter driver/module (like when I first installed LM) even if they are able to learn how. If the "bloat" is extra libraries that are necessary to enable compatibility with various hardware or support for a variety of apps, I'm okay with it unless there is a better way to do it without hours and hours of either compiling modules and typing series of system commands or learning the guts of the system.  
7 years ago

Rovanion
@andym3 It is just FUD that Ubuntu is turning into Windows. It has been said by people who like to build their own systems from day one that Ubuntu is bloated and becoming more and more bloated as it goes. Now admittedly Ubuntu has a larger memory footprint than many other distributions but it is in no stretch of imagination as large as any version of Windows newer than 2000. And architecturally there is very little common between Windows and any Linux distribution.  
7 years ago

andym3
Absolutely. Ubuntu is unfortunately turning into Windows, and that bloat is going to be hard to strip from Mint.
I'd suggest either Debian Testing, Sidux or a combination of both (is that possible?).
 
7 years ago

71KR117
I like this idea. When I updated just now, it asked me if I wanted to update the naming files to Ubuntu.  
7 years ago

Rovanion
I personally don't think a release cycle as slow as the one for Debian stable is suitable either concidering the package system. What running Debian Stable has learned me is that I will have to turn to backports for every application that I don't want to be severely outdated, and even the versions in backports are too old sometimes.

IE Mumble where 1.2.2 is the currently stable version where all 1.2.x versions are compatible with each other. In Debian Lenny Mumble 1.1.4 was shipped, and in backports 1.1.8 was to be found. It turns out that the 1.2.x series of mumble depended on a bounch of updated libraries which were impossible to introduce to Lenny without ripping out about every package installed.

My point being that in a package based world where every piece of software are depending on each other in a complex network it becomes very cumbersome to have a base that is very old. And to be true to the matter, Debian Lenny was only released a year ago, tough that does not at all mean that the packages are than new. Mumble 1.1.4 as mentioned was released somewhere in the first quarter of 2008.
 
7 years ago

Kwpolska
And, we should take PPA from ubuntu, it's a good feature too.  
7 years ago

Kwpolska
I think that selecting debian (sid) is good. The release cycle should be alike debian stable (sid is unstable). One release a few years, but with updated releases. If they'll release mint 10.0.1 in fall 2011, then in fall 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 should be published some releases with upgraded packages. After 5 years - mint 11. This is just an example.  
7 years ago

laofzu
I think a Debian based rolling release distribution would be the best way to go. I help a lot of people switch to Linux Mint, they want stability, and don't want to have me do a new install or upgrade every few months to a year. It would also help to have the user prompted to do their updates, or do them automatically by default unless they choose to disable this feature. As Linux grows in popularity, we have to keep in mind that it is not just geeks using it anymore. Not everybody can or wants to get into the fine details of setting up their computer. This is going to be the great appeal of the upcoming Google OS. Turn it on, use it. It's that simple. Mint doesn't need to go that far as some of us still need to work locally on our machines, but it is wise to keep an eye on the upcoming trends.  
7 years ago

alexandrum77
I totally agree. Using Debian stable as base and add the Mint touch on it. I think that the 6 months release cycle competition (which Ubuntu and later on Fedora and others embraced ) isn't doing any good to anybody. Release the distro when it's ready. Or better, have a rolling distro (http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1467). Simple as that. That's the way to go. I care more about a stable system than a new geeky cool new instable feature that looks cool and creates instability. Great job LinuxMint!  
7 years ago

Godzilla
Crunch-Bang Linux turned their back on Ubuntu for the same reasons. Mint is getting enough individuality they no longer need Ubuntu. Mint's theory has always been to release when they are ready. Promoted  
7 years ago

AlabamaHit
@ikey: What I mean is by default, it does not use the file browser, and it opens up new windows on every folder you open. I'm sure they would change that if they did use debian for mint.

I personally think Mint should go off of debian. I think it would be faster and more stable.
 
7 years ago

Pariah
well said :)  
7 years ago

RayWoods
We must consider quality to be of prime importance and I personally feel that a six month release cycle to be far too rapid. In just six months there isn't the time to consider the direction to go, make the developments and then fully test them.

Basing ourselves on Debian instead of Ubuntu wouldn't precluding us from 'pinching' any good ideas from that distribution or, from any other distribution for that matter.
 

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