Explain an idea that's rejected.

heiowge
  10 years ago
  7
  Considered

I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to say why when an idea is marked as "considered" aka "rejected". Especially one with a positive score.

Perhaps this could happen occasionally.
Latest comments
Biren 9 years ago

Truly said, too much arguement ends in winnining a point and losing a friend. Although I don't know the entire subject, I just could not like it


AshBaby 9 years ago

I do not think it is a good idea.. I see most mods post comments explaining a vote anyway, and they are moderators because they know better.. so what if once in a while, a good idea is rejected.. it will re-surface and would gather a higher vote count.

Personally i think the only time a good idea would be rejected anyways even though it has high points and is popular when it is not implementable. If a moderator puts comments that it is a good idea but cannot implement as it is futuristic or dependent on other changes required not in control of mint, or that it is a personal preference will initiate a whole new debate causing the ideas to be a forum.. (like it is somewhat today)

Reject an idea, stop the voting and close the comments.. get it done with. For more assistance, see you at the forums.


sujitnag 10 years ago

1> for all mod there is a single a/c, when they comments they use it.
2> Any personal comment not to be restricted, It help to judge our community friend.
or mod delete it
3> restrict anyone is not a solution, because he can open another a/c.

moderation is a cost free job so why we tolerate it. This is a mod mentality. Otherwise think about call center executive.


sunewbie 10 years ago

As per my knowledge, people are warned by an admin and Clem repeatedly before Clem takes decision to ban a member.

there are many ideas like single account for everything, but it would not be possible due to current approach, like both community and forums are hosted at separate servers for faster loading. So they cannot be implemented. There are another good ideas like Mint wiki, etc which require dedicated manpower, we they are very extensive. I am maintaining Linux Beginner Search and to maintain a simple CSE, it is taking time, which I had not expected. Maintaining wiki with fast evolving cinnamon or fast release cycle of 6 months plus 6 editions to cover will take a lot of time. This may not be possible with current man power. Pinguy wiki was brought down due to lack of contribution and low use. People may be exited about wiki and they may initially create one, but to maintain it is yet another story.

Again, if you observe, then recently after Gnome 3 and unity, Mint ,which was just ubuntu + addons has made great changes.

There is LMDE, Cinnamon, Nemo, MATE (though not directly attached, but Clem is release manager, so he needs to dedicate some time). there was MGSE (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions) which was introduced in Mint 12 along with Gnome + MATE. At that time, Clem had said in Blog post that there were only 3 full members. then Clem had many deals with search engines after loosing 2 months money in CSE and ad-sense, due to lack of knowledge of it's terms and conditions and it's operations.

When Clem gave spoor name on blog, there were some negative comments in the name of FOSS etc. I have read them but cannot recollect and point the URL.

I am not taking side of Mods or Clem. But I am businessmen. When your company is growing, you are very busy in expansion process. When you do not want to expand, you are comparatively free. I have observed this in my own business.

Again, some devs like Kendal, Ikey started their own distro. Merviz, boo, etc who were volunteering to develop Linux Mint different editions are no more active. As they are not on a pay roll but just volunteers, Clem cannot complain about them. So for some time, KDE was not getting 6 month new release, fluxbox was discontinued, Mint 9 was last XFCE. Mint 10 had just a meta-file of XFCE.

during this period, ideas of community just remained 'New'. there were some active members and were really frustrated about this. Then when new mods were appointed and the ideas were moderated fasts, there were comments like

'older ideas older than 6 months or 1 year' are not moderated and newer ones are moderated fast' I also had commented once that idea should be moderated atleast within 6 months. But then tried to find the reason which I shared with you. There was unrest and due to frustration, which members thoughts were good ideas and had to be implemented were rejected. Public attacks followed on mods and then directly on a particular mod in public.

Now, due to all these factors Clem had to make a decision to change moderation policy. I do not know what happened between mods and admin, but one day I saw statuses changed and so did the policy.

Initially, both forums and community were taking time to load as they were hosted on one server, but as soon as Clem got a sponsor, Blue systems if I remember correctly, then Clem immediately shifted community to a dedicated server. To my this shows that Clem is serious about both community and forums

I think that a good idea if cannot be implemented in current situation and infrastructure remains just an idea and nothing more.

For some time, I had not posted any new idea, as I wanted devs to settle. Now it looks like, from Clems posts and comments on blog, that he will spend some time on improving Mint then creating anything new.Improvements in software manager were made and released in Mint 14.

Again, I am not a mod nor P.A. of Clem. I just wanted to share what has happened to our new members. Still if you strongly feel, please contact Clem, as he is final authority.

Regards


remoulder 10 years ago

This has all been discussed before, there is little point in raising the issue again. You should remember that votes and comments on this site are only a small sample of the wider userbase and not necessarily representative, and there are many other considerations that have to be taken into account by the developers on whether a suggestion is worthy of consideration.


heiowge 10 years ago

I think that if an idea is rejected (or approved) people will still want to say their piece.

An anonymous "moderator" who rejects and idea would work well, and provide an opportunity for discussion.

People who outright attack could be warned or banned.


telcnas 10 years ago

@Hammer459 Well, if thats the case I don't know what to say...Ok, sorry but I'm not trying argue with anyone here :) Please don't mind, all I'm saying is that if somebody really want to make any sort of personal attacks they will surely find a medium(say using one such thing called google search engine).... one cannot prevent that....yes but what one can do for sure is restrict it to a particular domain(i.e. not let it be public).. :) :) ...that's all...


Hammer459 10 years ago

@telcnas I think that @sunewbie wants to avoid personal attacks both in public as well as private. I can understand that. I would at least not want to be mod if I get a lot of angry messages when rejecting (or approving) a controversial idea :-)


telcnas 10 years ago

@Hammer459 But once the discussion is been closed, no one can make any sort of personal attacks publicly on moderator because this comment section is the only medium users have to make their views(related to a particular idea) public :)


Hammer459 10 years ago

@telcnas I think that the comment and voting should be closed once an idea gets the status changed as that means that the fate of the idea is decided :-)
An explanation should be given but there must be a way for mods to give that explanation anon...

Maybe a separate field for "Moderation reason"? And no name associated with the mod?


telcnas 10 years ago

First I agree and appreciate the explanation done by @sunewbie ....Seriouly its a nice info I was not aware about.......

But again a case(rejection of an idea with positive score) like such needs an exception and one possible solution is:

Moderators must clarify the reason behind the rejection of an idea having a positive score providing that no one is allowed to rebutt(or to make any sort of reply to that).

This can be achieved by simply blocking the comment section(i.e. kind of read-only mode) once the idea get rejected and this will even prevent users further from making any comment to the ideas with status considered (or rejected)


Kind of "Session Closed" or "Discussion Closed"

w.r.t the argument I made I'm promoting this idea......


sunewbie 10 years ago

@Hammer459 

thanks for the suggestion. I think it will be difficult. There should be a common separate Account to comment, where no name of mod is specified, but just a general word like admin or mod should be displayed instead of their screen name / login ID

If you have find another way, please let us know. sooner or later when this idea is reviewed by a mod, they have also have possible solution.

there were other ideas like vote comments, rate user, report SPAM, etc, but were not implemented.


Hammer459 10 years ago

@sunewbie How abot we add a way for moderators to comment as the user moderator. It is of great value for the community to understand why an idea get its new status. It may (we hope) avoid multiple submissions etc.
I fully understand the want for mods to stay out of the heat as it is completely voluontary work... :-)


sunewbie 10 years ago

earlier mods used to give an explanation as the rules said that mods should cexplain why they reject. Then there was a time when there were many un-moderated ideas due to lack of participation of mods. Later this was sorted out and the new mods were very active.

But upon rejection of an idea, there were personal attacks on them. Later on new rules mention that mods are discouraged to comment. Mods like us are volunteers and the judgement is subjective. Hence there will be disagreement between mods and us which may get bad and turn into personal attacks.

http://community.linuxmint.com/user/moderators


Hammer459 10 years ago

You are so right.

Promoting


sujitnag 10 years ago

I agree with u. any moderator can show the reason. No debt no argument no discussion why. It help to know mint philosophy and practical boundary.