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9 years ago 5 |
Much better.
Good tutorial and the coorct target audience :-)
Yeah! It does not. What you mean then? I said if there are tarballs, can they be installed by software manager. I said need to use terminal (did not mean apt) to install tarballs.
Dude!
apt does not handle tarballs! apt handles deb install files.
I know that terminal is more powerful as when I started using Unix there was hardly nothing else. Setting up X was a half days worth of work.
But I insist for every day install and uninstall you pretty much _never_have to use CLI apt. For every day update you _litterally_ never have to use anything but Update manager.
But when you are feeling a little more advanced and want to know how it works behind the scene, your tutorial introducing APT is good, quite good. But please do not make newbies belive they have to use CLI, because they don't, and this only makes many of them confused and hesitant of Linux.
No not at all. I am not saying neither I said or shown in article that linux is tough. It's easy. And we don't have always .deb files, we do have .tar.gz and many more. well I got what you mean that the above article is not for beginner but thoughts are conflicting here. It may seems like oh! there are too many commands but read it first it's all very easy. Linux makes everything easy including that powerful terminal. Linux will also be so easy if we use terminal and so we do. I am respecting your opinion and will see even more healthy discussion on this (may be here or on future articles).
If you download a deb file from the net your favourite browser _will_ prompt automatic install.
I insist that most user will _never_ need to install from comamnd line.
Semi-advaced users and up may have use for this.
By targetting this good tutorial at the "newbies" you are not only aiming at the wrong crowd, you also help perpetuating the incorrect notion that Linux is hard because you need to know all this difficult command line mumbo jumbo.
Change the target audience to semi-advanced and discourage newbies and I will say your tutorial is recommended read. Now it is not.
@MagicMint: We can not cover everything at once. And as I have said software manager (Software center in Ubuntu) are nice and easy to install and remove packages but that's not just an issue that I talked about in my article. The same commands can solve many problems that we don't have to install third party software to solve them. The article is basic and can be used easily to solve problems and install packages as well.
@MintMarple You did not understand the way that commands are written in tutorial and that is no problem (it happens). You can ask anything that is unclear to you.
Simply parenthesis shows here that this is an input that user needs to put, for example, to install vlc, we'll not right {vlc} but vlc. apt-get install vlc
Even if there are problems defining the things then you can comment and it will be accepted.
@Hammer459: Yes I agree that Software Manager is good and easier. But arguably we do use these commands (Terminal) alot. Apart from Software Manager we do install software from websites sometimes they are from sourceforge or others, there are many. Terminal is not tough though, once we are familiar with it then it's easiest. But here the articles talks basics of APT and so to learn many more things just keep learning. Finally there are three points that I admit,one Software manager is good, second Terminal is always useful (It takes a bit more time to understand), and third installing software is not just an issue that Software manager alone can solve so we need terminal. The above apt commands instead of installing software can solve many problems.
@Hammer459: Me too, I prefer the Software Manager by large, but sometimes I fall back into the command line wit apt, mainly by lack of patience ;-) — admittedly, it takes its time to load a package database with 71000+ packages…
@MintMarple: You see yourself, at the very same moment you quit Mint’s easy way, things get horribly complicated :-) The notation {something} is a so-called meta or syntactic notation that indicates where you have to put in something — that in the real world has no braces or parentheses or whatsoever around it. By the way, in Debian and its derivatives, you ’update’ the package list, i.e. the database, and you ’upgrade’ a package or the whole system.
@Sandy1: As you can see, even the best description still assumes a lot from newbies. At the very first place, confusion rules in ’package management’ itself, not that much in its tools. Even with the Mint utilities, it gets baffling when you have to use the Update Manager which latterly exposes package dependencies… Think of this: even Debian has aptitude as a graphical interface to deal with the underlying command-line complexity of apt :-(
@MintMarple you are right that Synaptic is complicated, that is why Mint developed Software Manager. This is simple and powerful at the same time. I am very experienced and I hardly ever use apt because of SM . So teaching apt and dpkg to newbies is unnecessary and possibly confusing.
This is why I say that this is a good tutorial for the somewhat experienced but not useful for a newbie.
You are right. And at the same note, just because you and I know more than most about installing software does not mean that most people even have to know. Synaptic makes the knowing apt and dpkg redundant and Mints Software Manager make Synaptic pretty much redundant.
Had the Tutorial been aimed at "those who need to now how stuff works under the hood" it would be a pretty good tutorial. Bot not for a newbie.
See if you know everything that does not mean everyone knows. Those who need to know this, will read this definately. I tried to write the things that seem tough to newbie. This is how I think the community develop. I had some problems when i figured out I gave explanation here to basic learners. I respect what you are saying but listen to me too, we believe in sharing. Whatever you know share it will others, those who need it will go for it.
This is like an introduction to driving a car including changing sparkplugs, timing belt and transmission fluid.... All you need is "How do I turn on the ignition" and "Who do I call to service the engine".
Class 98... "How do I change sparkplugs"
Class 492... "How do I change timing belt"
It's an introduction to the commands that I usually used/came across on linux mint like so many others. I had some confusions when I knew about packaging management tools and concept of packages. I even saw many on the internet asking about the difference between packages and software. The main reason of the article is to remove confusions about package management tools. No doubt linux mint is easy and even I started with it and still use Linux mint and Ubuntu.
All the people at Debian, Ubuntu and Mint are working hard to hide all this complexity from Average Joe, who shouldn’t have to deal with these unnecessary details, really ;-)
It is not necessary to copy content from another site here, you just need to provide the link.
In Linux Mint, you never use this because we have a 'Software Manager' and Synaptic. However, this is a good introduction so I promote this tutorial ;)
This is a rather good description but it does not discuss the fact that for the average user you _never_ have to use apt. Synaptic on Ubuntu is way easier to use and Mints Software Manager makes it so simple even my daughter installed software when she was 7