lmde-6-amd64-2023.09.05-07:21

clem
  5 months ago
Architecture: amd64
Type: Cinnamon
Status: Rejected
Comments
clem 5 months ago



2) You don't really need a connection to install the OS. Without your IP address it just defaults to en_US.

4) I agree, this can be considered a bug. Especially since we're creating a dedicated /boot when the user chooses full disk encryption.

6) Adding nemo-media-column is in our roadmap. We need to ensure it doesn't impact performance. It's planned for next Mint releases but we didn't look into it for LMDE 6. zram-tools is the kind of optimizations we usually leave out if they're not done upstream either in Debian or Ubuntu. It doesn't just has a risk of creating issues, it adds a noticeable difference in behavior between Mint and upstream which isn't easy for users to detect, understand or troubleshoot.

7) In the user guide maybe.

8) Imo if zram is beneficial to a majority of users this effort should be done upstream at Debian level directly.


clem 5 months ago

Rejecting this one, new ISOs coming up.


enyc 5 months ago

@clem  Thankyou! Please see carefully responses here:-

1) Look forward to re-testing installer on next image.

2) A Common-case is Wifi-only system in which case "IP address location" doesn't help. I PARTICULARLY note this installer doesn't prompt you to or help you connect to wifi (nor indeed, transfer that setting into the installed system ready-for-use). Previous ubuntu/ubiquity installers, did.

3) In light of the above I'll re-test the language selection on a new image on slower and faster machines without internet.

4) What I'm saying about obsolete kernels is this is a real issue in *BOTH* Mint and LMDE -- if you install with separate /boot (e.g. encrypted root setup) you easily end up with wedged package system "unable to configure package" and all of this nonsense that has to be manually resolved (looking up help, etc) all because of a needless filling up /boot. In my view this cannot be anything but a BUG in both mint and LMDE.

5) I note that I have been testing the "remove obsolete kernels" for ages on many systems and never had any trouble with this.

6) What I'm saying about zram-tools and nemo-media-columns is this sort of thing needs "sorting out" (focus and development groups??) to achieve parity with e.g. osx and otherwise. I'd like to be invited into the development/testing groups which handle these "cumulative improvements" over time.

7) I particularly note that upstream (debian) are NOT filling the same niche as LinuxMint trying to provide more elegance and usability out of the box, this is one of the things we should be handling, at the very *least* telling those in release-notes how to get these things.

8) I have extensively used zram setup and found that EITHER it helps really slow older system where cpu-compression is still faster than Hard disk -or- it works on newer systems where cpu compress speed is particularly fast and better than SSD-swapping. What I was saying is that the debian-provided defaults in "zram-tools" package are quite conservative, you can actually have rather MORE zram than that as a tweak.
In short, some of these "important research on improvements" As well as the BUG situation need delegating or investigating. I'd happy join the relevant groups or so rather than just "comments on iso images at last minute" sort of thing ....

Hope that helps, and look forward to new images.


clem 5 months ago

The option to remove obsolete kernels/dependencies is not enabled by default in Mint either.

zram-tools and nemo-media-columns could affect performance and are not present in Mint or upstream either.

I'll have a look at the installer, that edit button is missing indeed.


clem 5 months ago

@enyc: The installer is ours. It should autodetect your language based on your IP address.. it auto-selects English - Ireland for me for instance. I'm testing this in 1024x768 and I can't see any issue with it.


clem 5 months ago

@jan-olof: Although the autologin should workj in THIS iso, the fact that the live password is "live" is a bug. That's fixed here now. It will be blank in the next ISO.


enyc 5 months ago

@jan-olof
Then ... Try writing the iso with Linux mint Image Writer. -- its' possible programs like rufus/otherwise mess it up by trying to be clever.
Demonstrate other images on the same testing computer.
Demonstrate the correct-sha256sum test-image with Linux Image Writer on a *different* USB stick.
Test across different computers.
Essentially: PLease do what you can to narrow it down, follow https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html guidelines.
Then report if (for example) the password behaviour is persistent on a particular type of computer ONLY but not on the others, or whatever.
Details and methodical narrowing down will be important for any chance of fixing underpinning issue in LMDE iso preps (if there is one).


jan-olof 5 months ago

@enyc: sha256sum is correct (I always check that). Have used various programmes to write the ISO file to USB stick - which works fine with all other editions of Mint.


enyc 5 months ago

@jan-olof
No -- The live image is supposed to be automatic-login and not need password for sudo either (as it works for me).
Please re-download image and re-write image and try again on a different USB stick or DVD, see if you can clear the fault on testing-system.


jan-olof 5 months ago

@clem: Does this mean that a beginner who wants to try Mint needs to know the password before being able to try it properly?


enyc 5 months ago

Usability annoyance #4: (request for consider/update later?)
nemo-media-columns is not installed, preventing "date taken" especially on picture files, something available since winXP.
Possible downsides with security/speed to installing by default but imho 'first impressions count' and this package-install ought to be made an option/available at least mentioned in release notes, in my opinion,


enyc 5 months ago

Out of the box, zram-tools is not installed, thusly system swaps, wears out SSD or slow on hard disk rather more than needed... IME especially with chromium and electron apps easily avoidable ram overfilling happens easily.
I can also note, other 2 most popular OSes have had this basic ram compression for years now., and the debian default config for zram-tools is very sensible/conservative out the box.


enyc 5 months ago

I have not tested an actual encrypted-disk install BUT I note that the (well tested on normal mint, at lease) option to remove Obsolete Kernels and Dependencies is not enabled out of the box.
Not having this is needlessly setting up for failure when a separate /boot is in use as after a few update cycles, /boot overfills creating a horrible mess ...


clem 5 months ago

@jan-olof: the password is "live". It should auto-login though, if it doesn't autologin for you make sure the ISO has the right sha256sum and burn it slowly if you're using an optical device.


jan-olof 5 months ago

Keeps asking for password.


enyc 5 months ago

Usability annoyance #3: Setting up PSK wifi connection in GUI from live system (while installer busy whirring-away in background).
Never seems to manage to helpfully pop-up asking for Wifi Key, instead discover need to manually click Star/Settings/Cog style icon and then go manually to Security, set and filli in, then retry connection. MAYBE it works for others under less-loaded system.


enyc 5 months ago

Usability annoyance #2: In manual partitioning (put linux on a particular partitioning) there is no "Change"/"Modify" button for what to do with a partition.
Very easy to be confused with expecting to press "Modify Partitions" and not succeeding!.
Turns out, you actually need to double-click on a partition/entry to change function, but this is not apparent to the uninitiated.


enyc 5 months ago

Doing some testing on small netbook with 1366x768 screen.
Usability annoyance #1: The Language Selector seems to be a pain, keeps re-ordering, hard to select e.g. United Kingdom. Took a bit of fiddling and searching/unsearching to get there. May of course be upstream installer issue but I just observe this as "first impressions count".